I'm not going to make more of it than intended. Those words from you--tenative as they may be--are very important, given the evasions and denials we have had in this debate for so many years. Let's have a discussion of that, as you say. And it's very hard to do.

As a conceptual question, the discussion that is needed simply isn't taking place. The labor unions start out in a very hard-nosed position in one place. A lot of trade people talk a very hard position in another place. No one ever wants to step back and discuss it. That's my impression right now.

If someone came to the Hamilton Project and said, "I want you to pursue this question, I want to participate, I have some ideas," would you be open to that?

Oh, yeah. In fact, we've talked a lot about that. The answer is 100 percent yes. The trouble is, the only people who come to us are either "Trade is great, let's not work on anything else" or they come in and say, "We need to have labor and environmental conditions and trade is undermining workers and let's not talk about anything else." If we say it's much more complicated, the way you and I just discussed, people don't want to discuss that. But the answer is yes, the answer is absolutely yes.

On the Hamilton Project, your critics are already saying that when you take the basic agenda you've laid out, this is kind of "Rubinomics" all over again.

Well. [Laughs] You mean the Clinton economic agenda?

Yeah.

Well, the Clinton economic agenda, if you think about what it was, it was fiscal discipline, it was investing in people, having a healthcare system that works, an energy policy that works. And it was trade liberalization, foreign aid, deal with crisis, kind of a national agenda. I think that myself is a pretty good framework. The basic principles of sound economic policy I don't think change. Now what has changed are the circumstances so you have to adjust your policy to deal with the circumstances.

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