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RedditThe United Steelworkers union is holding its annual convention this week. Union conventions in presidential election years invariably deal with presidential politics, and this one is no different.
Except, perhaps, for the quality of the oratory – and the depth and meaning of the message.
Barack Obama may well be the most eloquent presidential candidate the Democrats have run since William Jennings Bryan.
But what is fascinating is the extent to which Obama's candidacy is inspiring his supporters to hit their rhetorical strides.
AFL-CIO Secretary-Treasurer Richard Trumka, a veteran mineworkers union leader who has always been known as one of labor's fiercest public speakers, was dispatched to the convention to whip up enthusiasm for the Obama campaign.
Trumka knew that the steelworkers had backed John Edwards for this year's Democratic presidential nomination -- and that the union had only endorsed Obama when Edwards finally came around. He understood that a part of his job was to get a union that is especially strong in the battleground states of Ohio and Pennsylvania excited about a candidate who must win those states.
Trumka knew, as well, that there are steelworkers -- and autoworkers and machinists and others-- who are committed to the labor movement but cautious about backing a person of color for president. So te Pennsylvania populist went to the heart of the matter -- challenging ignorance and fear and calling on the House of Labor to identify and reject the politics of race in order to elect an ally to the presidency.
"(There's) no evil that's inflicted more pain and more suffering than racism -- and it's something we in the labor movement have a special responsibility to challenge," declared Trumka is a speech that will rank as one of the most important of the 2008 campaign.
Of course, there will be efforts to divide working Americans against themselves, said Trumka.
Union activists must be in the forefront of fighting against those efforts, he argued. And their message must go to the bottom line of the 2008 election: "(At) the end of the day, what people are going to need to hear is that when it comes to protecting jobs, when it comes to protecting pensions, when it comes to health care, child care, pay equity for women, Social Security, Medicare, seeing to it that people can afford to go to college and buy a home -- and restoring the right to collective bargaining -- Barack Obama has always, always been on our side. "This is a guy who's voted with labor 98 percent of the time! "Now, contrast that with John McCain.
"On one side you have Barack: a man who worked full-time helping laid off steelworkers in Chicago.
"On the other side you have John McCain who helped pass the trade laws that resulted in laid-off steelworkers in Chicago." On issue after issue, Trumka tore McCain to shreds. But his primary message was not anti-McCain. It was anti-racism – and pro-Obama. And, for those who understand the historical turning that America is coming to this fall, it was incredibly significant. Here are Trumka's remarkable remarks:
Thank you brothers and sisters.
You know, over the course of the year, I go to a lot of union conventions.
And I usually enjoy it because it gives me a chance to hear what's on people's minds -- and what they think the AFL-CIO and the labor movement ought to be doing.
But since we're in Las Vegas -- and what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
I have a little confession to make.
It's that of all the union conventions I go to, one of the ones I look forward to the most is yours. And there're a few reasons for that: one of them is this man right here (point to Leo).
Brothers and sisters, in my estimation, there is no bolder stronger more tenacious effective and innovative trade unionist in this country than Leo Gerard!
I've known my share of labor leaders and I can tell you that while a whole lot of them talk the talk; Leo Gerard walks the walk.
He's leaner and he's meaner, and by God, we've got to keep him that way!
And, of course, it's not just Leo; you've got a fantastic International Secretary-Treasurer in Jim English.
In my mind he defines what a trade unionist ought to be.
Whether it's going toe to toe with OSHA or bargaining solid contracts -- Jim's there -- on the front lines -- and working people and our families are a heck of a lot better off for it.
But the biggest reasons I'm so glad to be here are the ones I'm looking at right now.
It's you.
You know, I remember telling Leo that when I was president of the Mine Workers the night before the convention long after everyone else was through partying and had gone to sleep, I'd go down to the convention hall.
I'd usually be the only person down there.
Hanging on the walls we'd often have big blow ups of photographs (gesture).
Pictures showing some of the great moments from our history.
Pictures taken on picket lines. Pictures of coal miners and our families and our struggles.
And usually a picture of John L. Lewis.
All looking down to the convention floor.
All looking down to where the delegates would be taking up the union's business the next morning. And, standing there in the quiet, you couldn't help but feel a sense of awe -- a sense of awe that comes from knowing that the men and women who'd be sitting at those tables like all of you -- under the gaze of the people in those pictures -- were the inheritors of their legacy.
That everything our ancestors fought for... everything they struggled for -- and some of them died for -- was now in our hands.
And that it was up to us the living to guard what they gave their lives to win ... to build on it... and see to it that, by God, no one ever dares to take it away! And that includes our strike and defense fund.
There's power that comes from knowing that you're standing on such broad shoulders.
Power that comes from knowing that you're not just members of an organization -- but part of a great movement.
Well, brothers and sisters, every time I'm with the Steelworkers -- whether it's on the picket line, at a local meeting or at a great convention like this -- I know I'm in the presence of that same kind of power.
Just take a minute and look around this hall.
Look around this room
You see people who work at smelters and refineries, tire plants, mines and mills.
You see grocery workers and nurses and security guards -- and folks who provide the good public services all our families depend on. And look around and you'll see the most highly skilled and productive steel making professionals in the world.
There's women and men.
Different colors.
Different ages.
Americans and Canadians
But, somehow, all those differences are trivial to what you share in common.
It's a shared heritage of struggle forged by women and men driven by the faith...the idea... the knowledge...
That the way things are, isn't the way things have to be.
It's like a flame that's burning inside you.
It's the reason why -- whether it means standing out in the freezing cold or scorching heat -- you're always, always there when it's time to pass out a leaflet or walk a picket line.
It's the reason why you go to all those meetings when you'd rather be at home with your family.
It's the reason why you're the first one to raise Hell when some supervisor forgets that honoring the contract isn't his choice, it's his obligation.
And it's why, as exhausting and frustrating as it sometimes is, still you wake up the next morning ready to do it all over again.
It's because you know that what makes all of us union isn't some card we carry in our pockets it's the commitment...the caring...and the love for one another we carry here in our hearts (gesture toward heart).
And it's because you know that there is only one way working people ever won in the past...and only one way we're going to win today.
It's not by turning on each other, it's by turning to each other.
It's by organizing, together.
It's by mobilizing, together. It's by working, and planning, and building, together.
Brothers and sisters, it is by standing tall and fighting together.
That's what makes this union strong!
That's what makes this union proud!
That's what makes you the United Steelworkers of America one of the most powerful forces on earth -- and, by God, no one's ever going to turn you around.
And, brothers and sisters, I'm here to tell you that your commitment, your strength -- your courage and your power -- has never been more important to the future of this labor movement – and to the future of this country -- than it is right now. Because if you work for a living -- if you consider yourself part of the middle-class -- the America that you'll be leaving your children will barely resemble the America that was left to us.
We've all heard that phrase that the middle-class is being squeezed. Well, I disagree with that: We're not being squeezed: we are being crushed.
Let me just share a few numbers with you.
Today, income inequality -- the gulf between the rich and the rest of us -- is at a level we haven't seen since the '70s.
I'm not talking about the 1970s, I'm talking about the 1870s!
For those of you who are labor history buffs, let me put it this way: income inequality is greater today than it was before the Homestead strike.
Another number.
In 1928, the top one percent of earners in this country took home 21.1 percent of all income.
That's the all time high.
Well, (as of 2006, the most recent year we have numbers for) that top one percent is grabbing up 20.3 percent of all income, and its higher now!
Right now, if you looked at America's Gross Domestic Product, you'd see that we're up there with countries like Switzerland and Sweden. But, if you measure income inequality, we're neck and neck with Mali and Sri Lanka.
We even see it in terms of life expectancy. Today, the U.S. not only wouldn't make the top ten list -- we wouldn't even make the top 30!
But, you know something? If you're a trade unionist, you don't need to hear a bunch of statistics to know what's happening in this country.
We see the casualties every single day.
Go to Birmingham, Alabama.
Or Gary, Indiana.
Or Milwaukee.
Cleveland.
LA.
Or my hometown of Nemacolin, Pennsylvania.
We see high school grads who can't afford to move out of their parents' houses and can't afford community college. They're working dead-end jobs at Circuit City and breaking their backs working minimum wage jobs at nursing homes.
They're not statistics -- these are people we know.
We see men and women who've spent their entire working lives doing exactly what they were supposed to. Working hard. Bringing home a paycheck. Trying to put a little aside for their kids. Paying their mortgage.
Hoping that, maybe someday, they could retire and move to Florida.
What do they do when the company tanks?
Or packs up and leaves?
What are they supposed to do for health insurance if they're too young for Medicare?
How are they supposed to get by when the pensions they were counting on are worth pennies on the dollar?
These aren't statistics -- these are people we know. People we grew up with!
They lost their savings. They're living on credit cards. They're may be three or four paychecks from being homeless.
And we listen to what's happening to them and we think; but for the grace of God that could be me.
And it doesn't matter whether you're in Birmingham, Alabama,
or Gary, Indiana,
or Milwaukee,
or Cleveland,
or LA.
Or my hometown of Nemacolin, Pennsylvania.
Go anywhere in this country and it's the same story:
Working people hanging on by their fingernails. Their dreams shattered. Gone forever.
Does everyone here remember how all those people piled on Barack Obama after he said that a lot of working people in this country are angry?
Remember the reaction?
"The nerve of him to say that working people are angry!"
Well, brothers and sisters, I don't know about you, but I happen to think that was one of the most honest things I've heard a presidential candidate say in a long time.
Working people angry? Hell, yes we are -- and, you know something? We ought to be.
Because everything I just got through talking about:
Income inequality.
Low wages.
Americans losing their jobs…and their health care… and their pensions.
None of it -- none of it –none of it, had to happen.
And the only reason it did is because we've had leaders in this country -- Republicans and Democrats -- whose economic agendas are based on the same assumption.
It's the disproven, discredited notion that policies that generate corporate profits somehow translate into shared prosperity.
The truth is they don't.
The truth is that what's good for Wall Street has been nightmare for the rest of us living back on Main Street.
Just think of it: We're living in a country with more than $13 trillion a year in income.
American workers have never been more productive.
Corporate profits are surging.
Last year, Exxon Mobil posted sales of $404 billion dollars.
They made almost $1,300 in profit every second!
But even though our productivity has surged by almost 20 percent (from 2000 through 2006)
… even though Americans are working longer hours than workers in any other developed country…
… our wages have been flat -- or even falling -- since 2003.
Now, this wasn't some fluke of nature. It was the direct result of a set of economic policies that go back to the Reagan administration, were passed on to Bush one, carried on by Bill Clinton, and taken to new heights by the Bush / Cheney regime.
It was a bipartisan strategy for economic disaster.
We're riding in the backseat of a car barreling down a hill with four old, bald, non-union nankook tires.
One of the tires is called globalization: NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR for China: unfair trade deals that force women and men here to compete with the most impoverished and exploited workers in the world.
The outcome 34 million of good, union manufacturing jobs lost -- and more bargaining power for employers.
The second tire is small government: Selling off public services to corporations with one hand, and giving tax breaks to the rich with the other.
Brothers and sisters, privatization has never been about getting big government off our backs; it's about helping corporate America pick our pockets!
Third tire? Price stability: Sounds good, but what it means are policies that focus exclusively on inflation and ignore the federal government's responsibility -- and I'm talking about a legal responsibility -- to help create jobs.
How many folks here know that the Federal Reserve Board, by law, is supposed to work for a full-employment economy?
Don't feel bad if you don't know, because not many in Congress seems to either.
And the last old bald nankook tire is marked "labor market flexibility."
Now, any time we hear the words "labor" and "flexibility" used in the same sentence we ought to sit up and take notice. Because over the last 25 years "labor market flexibility" has become shorthand for robbing workers of pensions, health care, and, oh yeah, our right to organize.
Now, most of you come out of workplaces where you already have bargaining rights.
Well, if you want to know what it's like to try to get a union today just talk to the folks working at Community Health Systems' Kentucky River Medical Center.
After suffering years of abuse, in 1998 they did what any sensible group of workers would do: they organized with the United Steelworkers.
That was ten years ago, and to this day, the company is still refusing to bargain a first contract.
Now, if you ask the company, they'll tell you that they're only trying to maintain their "flexibility."
I'm sure they'll tell you that they need to have the ability to do as they please because that's what it takes to stay competitive.
Some of them may even believe that.
But we know better.
Union companies are no less competitive, the fact is they're more competitive. Just look at the relationship between the Steelworkers and Gamesa Wind. Gamesa knows that having a workforce represented by the Steelworkers isn't an expense; it's an asset.
Brothers and sisters, labor market flexibility is about one thing only: it isn't helping companies be more competitive, it's about making unions weaker.
And, I'll tell you one other thing: that (bullshit) stops the day the Employee Free Choice Act is signed!
Globalization.
Small government.
Price stability.
Labor market flexibility.
Those are the four old worn out tires this economy's riding on.
There's no question that if we don't get some new ones soon we're headed to a disaster.
But the only way that's going to happen is if we get out of the back seat, grab the wheel and take control -- and that's what this election is all about!
I want to take a little opinion poll.
If you think America ought to keep going in the same direction George Bush and Dick Cheney have been taking us in stand up.
(Well, I'm going to cut some of you guys in the aisle a break and assume you didn't understand the question.)
Now, stand up if you think it's time we had a president who's going to fight for national health care, sign the Employee Free Choice Act, strengthen OSHA, defend Social Security, end the war, and protect American jobs?
Well, congratulations -- you just answered the question that's stumped all the commentators and columnists and consultants in Washington, D.C. who are asking how Barack Obama is going to win the votes of workers in states like Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.
How can he do it? You've just said how: by speaking out about the issues that matter to working people.
Of course, some folks have said that he needs a special strategy to reach out to blue collar workers.
That he's got to talk more about God because a lot of us care about religion -- and more about hunting because, for some of us, hunting is a religion.
And there's something to that: it shouldn't be any secret that he's a Christian and that he's for the 2nd Amendment.
But, at the end of the day, what people are going to need to hear is that when it comes to protecting jobs,
when it comes to protecting pensions,
when it comes to health care, child care, pay equity for women, Social Security, Medicare, seeing to it that people can afford to go to college and buy a home -- and restoring the right to collective bargaining -- Barack Obama has always, always been on our side.
This is a guy who's voted with labor 98 percent of the time!
Now, contrast that with John McCain.
On one side you have Barack: a man who worked full-time helping laid off steelworkers in Chicago.
On the other side you have John McCain who helped pass the trade laws that resulted in laid-off steelworkers in Chicago.
What kind of man is John McCain?
Let me read you a quote. Listen to what he said. This was on April 23rd in Youngstown, Ohio:
"The biggest problem is not so much what's happened with free trade, but our inability to adjust to a new world economy."
In other words, it's not free trade's fault your plant shut down and moved to Mexico or China.
It's your fault.
If you can't adjust to free trade, well, suck it up: that's your problem!
Now, imagine for a second, if he's going to Youngstown -- of all places -- and says that in an election year, what's he going to do if he ever makes it to the White House?
You see brothers and sisters, there's not a single good reason for any worker -- especially any union member -- to vote against Barack Obama.
There's only one really bad reason to vote against him: because he's not white.
And I want to talk about that because I saw that for myself during the Pennsylvania primary.
I went back home to vote in Nemacolin and I ran into a woman I'd known for years.
She was active in Democratic politics when I was still in grade school.
We got to talking and I asked if she'd made up her mind who she was supporting and she said: "Oh absolutely, I'm voting for Hillary, there's no way I'd ever vote for Obama." Well, why's that?
"Because he's a Muslim."
I told her, "That's not true -- he's as much a Christian as you and me, so what if he's muslin."
Then she shook her head and said, "He won't wear an American flag pin."
I don't have one on and neither do you.
But, "C'mon, he wears one plenty of times. He just says it takes more than wearing a flag pin to be patriotic."
"Well, I just don't trust him."
Why is that?
Her voice dropped just a bit: "Because he's black."
I said, "Look around. Nemacolin's a dying town. There're no jobs here. Kids are moving away because there's no future here. And here's a man, Barack Obama, who's going to fight for people like us and you won't vote for him because of the color of his skin."
Brothers and sisters, we can't tap dance around the fact that there are a lot of folks out there just like that woman.
A lot of them are good union people; they just can't get past this idea that there's something wrong with voting for a black man.
Well, those of us who know better can't afford to look the other way.
I'm not one for quoting dead philosophers, but back in the 1700s, Edmund Burke said: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing."
Well, there's no evil that's inflicted more pain and more suffering than racism -- and it's something we in the labor movement have a special responsibility to challenge.
It's our special responsibility because we know, better than anyone else, how racism is used to divide working people.
We've seen how companies set worker against worker -- how they throw whites a few extra crumbs off the table – and how we all end up losing.
But we've seen something else, too.
We've seen that when we cross that color line and stand together no one can keep us down.
That's why the CIO was created.
That's why industrial unions were the first to stand up against lynching and segregation.
People need to know that it was the Steel Workers Organizing Committee -- this union -- that was founded on the principal of organizing all workers without regard to race.
That's why the labor movement -- imperfect as we are -- is the most integrated institution in American life.
I don't think we should be out there pointing fingers in peoples' faces and calling them racist; instead we need to educate them that if they care about holding on to their jobs, their health care, their pensions, and their homes
-- if they care about creating good jobs with clean energy, child care, pay equity for women workers --
there's only going to be one candidate on the ballot this fall who's on their side...
only one candidate who's going to stand up for their families...
only one candidate who's earned their votes...
and his name is Barack Obama!
And come November we are going to elect him President.
And after he's elected we are going to hit the ground running so that, years from now, we're going to be able to tell our grandchildren that 2008 was the year this country finally turned its back on men like George Bush and Dick Cheney and John McCain…
We're going to be able to say that 2008 was the year we started ending the war in Iraq so we could use that money to create new jobs building wind generators, solar collectors, clean coal technology and retrofitting millions of buildings all across this country…
We're going to be able to look back and say that 2008 was the year the tide began to turn against the Rush Limbaughs, the Bill O'Reillys, the Ann Coulters and the right wing hate machine…
Brothers and sisters, we'll be able to say that 2008 was the year we took our country back from the corporations and had a government that believed in unions again!
Let me just close by sharing a story with you.
A number of years ago, I had the chance to represent the Mine Workers at a union meeting in South Africa.
I knew it was going to be a big meeting, but I didn't know there'd be 35,000 people.
It was held in a field near a mine where the company had been viciously -- viciously -- brutalizing the workers.
When the escort committee led me to the stage you could feel the power of those 35,000 men and women who'd come together that day, just like you can feel it in this room.
And there, standing on the platform to welcome us, was a little old man. He must have been in his 80s and he was holding what looked like a club.
He went up to the microphone and a quiet came over the crowd. He held that club up and gestured toward the mine and said that club was "a symbol of everything we believe in, a symbol of our vision of the future, and a reminder that so long as we stand united they will never keep us from victory." They are trying to take this club out of our hands we will never let that happen.
I'd never seen a crowd erupt that way after he was finished speaking.
I've thought about that day a lot over the years.
The spirit I felt in that field. The pride.
The unity. The strength.
The power to make change happen.
There are no words that really honor what I felt that day.
Every time I think back to that day I'm reminded that, whether it's South Africa or the U.S. and Canada – or the U.K. and Ireland -- that's what trade unionism is all about.
That's our vision.
That's why your merger with Unite makes so much sense.
Because, brothers and sisters, in the age of globalization it doesn't matter what country we live in, or what flag we stand under, what truly matters is that we share the same hopes and dreams for our children.
We're one movement. With one vision.
We're fighting on different fronts, but it's always the same battle.
And standing here today, looking in your eyes, feeling your power, there's not a doubt in my mind that we're going to win it.
On those nights before the UMWA conventions ... when I was the only person on the convention floor… I could close my eyes and almost hear the voices of all the coal miners who gathered in past conventions long before I ever went underground.
I'd think about all their discussions, all their debates.
Yelling. Arguing. Coming to agreement.
There were coal miners from every corner of America and Canada. From Arizona to Nova Scotia.
They spoke English, Italian and Polish and a dozen other tongues. But they all shared one language in common: the language of trade unionism.
Workers who were once victims through the miracle of trade unionism, had been transformed into leaders.
Together, they overcame poverty and brutality that few today can hardly imagine and built organizations that won impossible victories.
That's the story of the American labor movement.
A long, long time before any of us were born, Eugene Debs said:
"Ten thousand times has the labor movement stumbled and bruised itself.
We have been enjoined by the courts, assaulted by thugs, charged by the militia, attacked by the press, frowned upon in public opinion, and deceived by politicians.
'But notwithstanding all this and all these, labor is today the most vital and potential power this planet has ever known, and its historic mission is as certain of ultimate realization as is the setting of the sun."
Brothers and sisters, from the era of Debs up to today, the story of the labor movement -- the story of this incredible union -- has been a saga of men and women joining together -- standing up against incredible odds -- and achieving what some thought to be unachievable.
Good contracts.
Safer jobs.
Pensions.
Health care.
But more than that we helped create an America where working people mattered.
We created Social Security?
We created the minimum wage?
Who created, Medicare and OSHA and MSHA?
We created Family & Medical Leave?
We did it because we see a different America than some.
We see an America where no one's left on the outside looking in.
We see an America where everyone has a seat at the table.
We see an America where the first thing they say to you when you walk into the hospital isn't "let's see your insurance," it's "let's see where it hurts."
We see an America where going to college isn't a privilege for a few, but an opportunity for all.
We see an America where everyone -- regardless of what kind of job they have -- is always treated with respect – an America that truly believes that if there's dignity in all work, there must be dignity for all workers.
We see an America where women workers aren't treated as second class citizens.
An America where no one is left to suffer in poverty.
That's our vision.
That's the America we're fighting for and that's the America we're going to win.
Because, brothers and sisters, we are not bankers or stockbrokers. We don't own insurance companies or drug companies or TV stations. We're not executives at oil companies or tire companies or paper companies or steel companies.
By God, we're the American labor movement.
We're strong, we're proud, we're union!
We're not afraid to fight, we not afraid to win -- and we know that the way things are isn't the way things have to be!
Complete Convention Coverage »
John Nichols
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Excellent, excellent article, John Nichols!
I especially like this part:
>>>"when it comes to protecting pensions,
when it comes to health care, child care, pay equity for women, Social Security, Medicare, seeing to it that people can afford to go to college and buy a home -- and restoring the right to collective bargaining -- Barack Obama has always, always been on our side.
This is a guy who's voted with labor 98 percent of the time!
Now, contrast that with John McCain.
On one side you have Barack: a man who worked full-time helping laid off steelworkers in Chicago.
On the other side you have John McCain who helped pass the trade laws that resulted in laid-off steelworkers in Chicago.
What kind of man is John McCain?"
Let me read you a quote. Listen to what he said. This was on April 23rd in Youngstown, Ohio:
"The biggest problem is not so much what's happened with free trade, but our inability to adjust to a new world economy."
In other words, it's not free trade's fault your plant shut down and moved to Mexico or China.
It's your fault.
If you can't adjust to free trade, well, suck it up: that's your problem!
Now, imagine for a second, if he's going to Youngstown -- of all places -- and says that in an election year, what's he going to do if he ever makes it to the White House? <<<
Posted by Metteyya at 07/02/2008 @ 7:31pm
I also like this:
>>>I went back home to vote in Nemacolin and I ran into a woman I'd known for years.
She was active in Democratic politics when I was still in grade school.
We got to talking and I asked if she'd made up her mind who she was supporting and she said: "Oh absolutely, I'm voting for Hillary, there's no way I'd ever vote for Obama." Well, why's that?
"Because he's a Muslim."
I told her, "That's not true -- he's as much a Christian as you and me, so what if he's muslin."
Then she shook her head and said, "He won't wear an American flag pin."
I don't have one on and neither do you.
But, "C'mon, he wears one plenty of times. He just says it takes more than wearing a flag pin to be patriotic."
"Well, I just don't trust him."
Why is that?
Her voice dropped just a bit: "Because he's black."
I said, "Look around. Nemacolin's a dying town. There're no jobs here. Kids are moving away because there's no future here. And here's a man, Barack Obama, who's going to fight for people like us and you won't vote for him because of the color of his skin."
Brothers and sisters, we can't tap dance around the fact that there are a lot of folks out there just like that woman.
A lot of them are good union people; they just can't get past this idea that there's something wrong with voting for a black man.
Well, those of us who know better can't afford to look the other way.
I'm not one for quoting dead philosophers, but back in the 1700s, Edmund Burke said: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing."
Well, there's no evil that's inflicted more pain and more suffering than racism -- and it's something we in the labor movement have a special responsibility to challenge.
It's our special responsibility because we know, better than anyone else, how racism is used to divide working people.
We've seen how companies set worker against worker -- how they throw whites a few extra crumbs off the table – and how we all end up losing.
But we've seen something else, too.
We've seen that when we cross that color line and stand together no one can keep us down. <<<
This would make a great general election campaign ad that you could play in the Appalachian region won by Hillary in the primaries.
Hillary won in those areas because of "extreme" white racism, in which white voters would rather go to the extreme of voting against their economic interest than vote for a "black" man.
Posted by Metteyya at 07/02/2008 @ 7:45pm
For Left-wingers, surely a nice speech by Trumka.....full of despair and Evenings in America!
Reading halfway thru....the parallel w/Thomas Frank's What's The Matter with Kansas just rung so true!
In Trumka's lengthy speech, not a single word was devoted to help their existing employers in adjusting to the 21st century. Not a single word addressed the aspirations of almost 3 billion Chinese & Indians who don't give a f*&k about American unions other than that it drives American costs higher and higher while our air gets cleaner and the Latte Liberals can see a mile farther in the Grand Canyon.
Not many of you have ever driven thru Pittsburg in its heyday. I did! A day after graduating from HS, a buddy & I left FL on a three week trip that tooks us all the way up to Canada (in my `67 Mustang :~). I was awestruck when we passed through Pittsburg....most of you can only get a mild sense of looking at old photos!
Blame the environmentalists and Big Gov't! Capital is disciplined, unsentimental and answers to knowledgeable people........very unlike government money doled out for motives we are know........that's the way it is!
At the end of reading this Nichols piece, my conclusion is American labor in the high-wage, low-tech sector is finished. Unless some young leaders emerge and get on with this century....and forget about the 1870s'!
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/02/2008 @ 8:22pm
"Hillary won in those areas because of "extreme" white racism, in which white voters would rather go to the extreme of voting against their economic interest than vote for a "black" man."
Posted by Metteyya at 07/02/2008 @ 7:45pm
Obviously, it still resonates with them. I sure hope you don't believe a few speeches are gonna turn them around by the time the general election gets here. Many of the white union rank and file members are not going to turn out in great numbers for Obama.
Posted by ACook at 07/02/2008 @ 9:43pm
"ACOOK, don't you find it a BIT disconcerting as an African-American woman to apparently be ....CHEERING for racism...so that your political ideology isn't defeated?"
Posted by Maskbeta at 07/02/2008 @ 10:01pm
I'm not cheering for racism. Hell, my father was a Teamster. Like it or not, racism is still prevelent in the unions. Especially in Detroit. Teamsters, UAW, AFL-CIO, they all know they've been that way for a very long time. A speech here or there is not going to bring them around.
That was one of the main reasons my father decided to leave. He was an independent truck driver with his own truck and no ties to the big 3 except for hauling steel. My dad lost a lot of money over the years because of the unions.
So it shouldn't come as a shock to libs that the white members don't want any part of Obama.
Posted by ACook at 07/02/2008 @ 10:33pm
HAPP, you've told us on numerous occasions that you were part of the "investor class" and hardly interested in labor conditions in the USA...as long as your KBR and Airbus stock keeps rising, you're pretty self-content.
Posted by Maskbeta at 07/02/2008 @ 8:44pm
Most of this post is pure slander! It's true TODAY, I'm "part of the "investor class" ", but I'll make a $100 donation to your favorite charity if you can prove:
1) I'm uninterested in labor conditions in the USA or 2) I owned or now own, KBR or Airbus stocks
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/02/2008 @ 11:26pm
being interested and caring are two different things.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/02/2008 @ 11:34pm
randy newman
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/02/2008 @ 10:15pm
You gotta remember something......my engineering studies in water resources and early membership in World Wildlife Fund.....I was a `green' before there was such a terminology. Hell, if one goes looking....one can spot HAPPY's engineering seals on some plans for the biggest wastewater treatment sysem built in the US in the early 1980s'!
At the same time, at that early age, I didn't have the sense to set policies on environmental regulations. It would be up to the Gubberment to work out the cost-benefits while keeping an eye out for whichever country that were fast-rising competitors at the time....my guess is then, they were S. Korea and Japan and maybe even Taiwan in steel-making. By not phasing in regulations in the least jarring way, older plants just shut down.
Everything is dynamic....today, the `hot' button `want', is to reduce CO2 emissions but your competitors, already with lower labor costs, won't. You are welcome to add costs and reduce CO2, but just do some variance analysis of how much sales you might lose and how many jobs might be lost. Presenting only `benefits'--BTW, extremely hard to do in GW--and not the costs, is basically, jumping off a plane with a never-tested single chute. Don't whine when the consequences are tragic!
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/02/2008 @ 11:49pm
Happy - I was thinking that the best way to adjust to the world ecoonomy is to take the most onerous burdens from our businesses, starting with the worst, which is healthcare.
I forget the name of a guy I heard interviewed a while back, who was one of the first to look to globalization. He said in a global economy, people will be unemployed for more than 6 months several times in their lives. The interviewer asked what about their lives in the meantime. He said that it probably meant the government would have to be there for basic services more often for more people.
I wonder if McCain was thinking of single payer health care, more unemployment insurance and support for food and housing?
I was fired up and ready to go just reading the speech; I can imagine what it must have been like to hear it.
Posted by ramara at 07/03/2008 @ 12:37am
....the best way to adjust to the world ecoonomy is to take the most onerous burdens from our businesses, starting with the worst, which is healthcare.
... He said in a global economy, people will be unemployed for more than 6 months several times in their lives.
I wonder if McCain was thinking of single payer health care, more unemployment insurance and support for food and housing?
I was fired up and ready to go just reading the speech; I can imagine what it must have been like to hear it.
Posted by ramara at 07/03/2008 @ 12:37am
Healthcare is not what brought down the traditional power unions like the UMW or USW......healthcare didn't become the Big Gorilla until well after you were born....guessing you are not older than my 23-yrs old. The world is simply becoming smaller and everything travels faster......AND our defeating communism.
Even before a truly broad-based "global economy", unemployment was a regular occurence. You just didn't hear about it as much. In my youth, you don't hear some plant in Little Town, IN closing and 200 jobs are lost.....today, the MSM touts every such `news'.
IMO, your future lies far less on "McCain...thinking of single payer health care, more unemployment insurance and support for food and housing" than how he plans to focus on economic growth and HELP a total revamp of our Primary & Secondary education system. Without a growing economy, intergenerational `war' is in your future.
Easy to get "fired up" over rhetorics.......that's how to incite people with narrow views or perspectives.
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/03/2008 @ 01:31am
that's how to incite people with narrow views or perspectives.
Posted by 2HAPPY
heheh
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/03/2008 @ 01:33am
Happy - Thanks for the thought, but I have a 23 year old myself, and just turned 60.
He was thinking of the days when people worked for one company for all or most of their working lives. That is when attaching benefits to work made sense. From what I hear McCain say about the economy, I wouldn't want to count on him for growth. What he would grow is the debt which would end up eating the economy. And as someone who is living on disability now, I know how vital the safety net can be.
As for narrow views and perspectives, I can only assume you were talking to some 23 year old with most life experience yet to come. As a child of the '60's, I've had a variety of experience and have learned that I can learn something from most people. But I would call myself, like Garrison Keillor, and old-fashioned bleeding heart liberal, and enjoy a rousing speech that aims to get people to think as well as feel.
Posted by ramara at 07/03/2008 @ 04:24am
P.S. I just got my first computer a couple of months ago and am exploring the internet and having the time of my life. Here's to learning forever.
Posted by ramara at 07/03/2008 @ 04:37am
Amazing.
Here I am, a union Hillary voter being told to get onboard the Obama bandwagon, watching as Obama shifts, pivots, triagulates and flips his way through FISA, campaign finance, NAFTA, Israel, Iran, Iraq, the death penalty... Tell you the truth : there's not a lot to be inspired about.
This is not where you accuse us of being racist. This is where you grudgingly recognize that we were able to see what you couldn't : that Obama's empty rhetoric proved less promising than Hillary's detailed policy proposals.
This is where you grudginly tell us we were right to see beyond the Bill Clinton years and see her as a seperate person- much more likely to get democratic values passed than Obama's vacuous promises of 'hope' and 'change'.
Somehow we were able to see beyond Obama's race to what he actually promised as a nominee. We were able to successfully compare this to what Hillary promised.
This is where we finally get your respect. Where you say "You were able to see beyond our accusations of racism and see them as two separate candidates and vote accordingly. Next time, instead of high-handed accusations and patronizing, we'll listen to what the unions, in their infinite wisdom, are saying".
Posted by nameme at 07/03/2008 @ 07:25am
The Nation -- 3 March 2008 -- John Nichols:
'...But, now, from the Canadian government comes a memo on a meeting between Obama's senior economic policy adviser, Austan Goolsbee, and Canadian officials in Chicago.
The memo, written by Joseph DeMora, a Canadian consular aide, explains that, "Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook, Goolsbee candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign."
The memo goes on to note that, "He (Goolsbee) cautioned that this messaging should not be taken out of context and should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans."
Goolsbee, who for days directed questions about the incident to the Obama campaign, is now offering another non-denial denial....'
Posted by HonestLiberal at 07/03/2008 @ 09:30am
Posted by Maskbeta at 07/02/2008 @ 10:40pm
First, Hillarys' plump bottom....now Rosie O'Donnel.....
Thanks Mask. I may be permanently grossed out.
Posted by Benchrest at 07/03/2008 @ 09:35am
Thanks Mask. I may be permanently grossed out.
Posted by Benchrest at 07/03/2008 @ 09:35am
do not panick...think Halle....all will be well again..for she is the only femine female on the list.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/03/2008 @ 09:47am
Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/03/2008 @ 09:47am
It's not WORKING! The mental images of oversized granny panties is metastisizing through those of Halle.
Posted by Benchrest at 07/03/2008 @ 10:51am
"What kind of man is John McCain?
Let me read you a quote. Listen to what he said. This was on April 23rd in Youngstown, Ohio:
"The biggest problem is not so much what's happened with free trade, but our inability to adjust to a new world economy."
From a comparison of the windbag speech by Trumka against McCain's statement referenced, John McCain obviously knows far more about economics than Trumka. What Trumka does know is extortion, arm
Trumka seems like just another union mafioso with the typical marxist class warfare spin. It's a good thing that a great many steelworkers understand more about values and pride in country than their union bosses. They are a significant part of the Reagan blue collar Democrats. They seldom vote the way their union bosses dictate.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/03/2008 @ 11:01am
Posted by HonestLiberal at 07/03/2008 @ 11:11am
That helps a little.
'Fat Bottom Girls' by Queen
Strange, my rockin world ain't going round.
"Thank you baby Jesus for my red hot smokin wife" Ricky Bobby
Posted by Benchrest at 07/03/2008 @ 11:24am
Here's to learning forever.
Posted by ramara at 07/03/2008 @ 04:37am
enjoy!
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/03/2008 @ 11:58am
understand more about values and pride in country
Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/03/2008 @ 11:01am
well, that will sure fix the economy.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/03/2008 @ 12:00pm
Happy - ...I have a 23 year old myself, and just turned 60.
He was thinking of the days when people worked for one company for all or most of their working lives. That is when attaching benefits to work made sense. From what I hear McCain say about the economy, I wouldn't want to count on him for growth. What he would grow is the debt which would end up eating the economy. And as someone who is living on disability now, I know how vital the safety net can be.
...... I would call myself...an(d) old-fashioned bleeding heart liberal,...
Posted by ramara at 07/03/2008 @ 04:24am
P.S. I just got my first computer a couple of months ago and am exploring the internet and having the time of my life. Here's to learning forever.
Posted by ramara at 07/03/2008 @ 04:37am
My apology for being so far off on a guess! The worst `profiling' yet!
Regarding your son's ?wish? for the days of employment for life with good benefits? It was never really true for a majority of Americans but it was part of the American Dream and lore. In his case, as is with my son's case, I am firmly in the camp that whatever benefits they do receive as employees, be both portable and held in their own accounts.....I mean specifically company pensions and Social Security.
Unions, with co. management complicity, agreed to contracts with costs so far in the future, no one much cared......but, tomorrow do arrive.
Debt is an issue but even while US debt has grown, we have managed to create jobs in this 300+ million U.S. of A. and unemployment remains envy of the advanced world. The ground work for that was done by Reagan....The country, the world, and Bill Clinton, were the beneficiaries......you likely don't agree. Watch what happens if the Demos take all branches of Gov't and we march back up a higher tax, more income-redistribution approach......you and I will be fine.....our kids will `pay'!
I like "old-fashioned bleeding heart liberal".....however misguided they were and led to the problems of the black community today.
"first computer a couple of months ago"...and you're blogging! Cool!
Oh, as a longtime union household/supporter, let me ask you how often do you EVER hear any credit given to Capital that provides American industry with its productivity edge? I mean, Americans aren't 30 ft. tall and can leap buildings while Koreans and Japanese can't!
I've used this example before, Exxon, the company I admire the most (i'll take flaks, their problem!), is worth about $500 Billion and has something like 100k US Employees.....on average, each is backed by $5 million of capital that's invested not just in bricks and mortar, but also in technology, research, marketing.....
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/03/2008 @ 12:31pm
The worst `profiling' yet!
Posted by 2HAPPY
no, you've done that with mccain.
MCBAMA '08!
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/03/2008 @ 1:58pm
>>>I've used this example before, Exxon, the company I admire the most (i'll take flaks, their problem!), is worth about $500 Billion and has something like 100k US Employees.....on average, each is backed by $5 million of capital that's invested not just in bricks and mortar, but also in technology, research, marketing.....
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/03/2008 @ 12:31pm<<<
The problems is their so-called "investments" are in STOPPING competing technology that would make oil obsolete in powering automobiles, or ties this technology to the gas motor like hybrids and the plug-in hybrid farce.
We don't need the gas motor at all, even as a hybrid. Exxon knows this, the automakers know this, so let's quit pretending that their "research" is a positive thing for the US consumer.
Posted by Metteyya at 07/03/2008 @ 2:18pm
Posted by Metteyya at 07/03/2008 @ 2:18pm
Lot of times, you come across as a dolt rather than just `passionate' about Magic or some cause. IF Exxon actually owned 200 Billion bbl of reserves, I may even fall sway under your doltism. Get a grip!
I/Houston experienced directly, and painfully, when Saudi Arabia decided to really kill off alternatives to oil back in 1986. It succeeded! My gut tells me, they are going to do it again....just when it looks like the US is going to get serious on an energy policy.
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/03/2008 @ 3:39pm
The problems is their so-called "investments" are in STOPPING competing technology that would make oil obsolete in powering automobiles, or ties this technology to the gas motor like hybrids and the plug-in hybrid farce.
We don't need the gas motor at all, even as a hybrid. Exxon knows this, the automakers know this, so let's quit pretending that their "research" is a positive thing for the US consumer.
Posted by Metteyya at 07/03/2008 @ 2:18pm
Don't you get tired of being so wrong so often?
Exxon, in contrast to your claim is the company that has joined in developing the next generation of hybrid batteries. They are making the thin film seperator that will allow much smaller lithium batteries to be used in autos without overheating.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/03/2008 @ 4:14pm
frostyzoom - thanks.
Happy - Here's an idea I heard someone say but I forget who: In the '70's when the first oil crisis happened and it looked like there would be serious regulation, the Japanese car companies hired engineers, while the American manufacturers hired lawyers.
We tend to think short term, and I think this crisis is the real Reagan legacy. And does it make sense to you that income over $75,000 doesn't pay into Social Security? And I think linking things to employers when most people change jobs several times in their working lives makes no sense, so I agree with you there.
But I had cancer last autumn and having a combination of Medicare and Medicaid supplemental insurance saved my life. Call it socialism if you like, but it works.
Posted by ramara at 07/03/2008 @ 6:22pm
Maskbeta - Bravo!
Posted by ramara at 07/03/2008 @ 10:17pm
But I had cancer last autumn and having a combination of Medicare and Medicaid supplemental insurance saved my life. Call it socialism if you like, but it works.
Posted by ramara at 07/03/2008 @ 6:22pm
i call it niceism.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/03/2008 @ 10:54pm
We tend to think short term, and I think this crisis is the real Reagan legacy. And does it make sense to you that income over $75,000 doesn't pay into Social Security?....
.....having a combination of Medicare and Medicaid supplemental insurance saved my life. Call it socialism if you like, but it works.
Posted by ramara at 07/03/2008 @ 6:22pm
"We tend to think short term"? True in some respects, especially labor unions! But a huge fallacy in many more respects. Which country leads the world in Research & Development in just about everything, including developing your cancer treatments and medications? This ties into what I said about American productivity's link to Capital.
The current energy crunch, not exactly a crisis, is far from being Reagan's legacy. To heavily subsidize alternative energies just wasn't palatable after the Arabs brought the oil prices back down during the mid-1980s'. Exxon lost billions trying to turn shale into oil and finally pulled the plug when subsidies was scrapped.
Even at today's $140/bbl oil, solar & wind need huge and guaranteed subsidies for however many years. How would you feel with tens of billions of subsidies if oil dropped back to $50 by next spring?
Socialism has its benefits, no one would seriously dispute that. It is a fact that in quite a few places, that's what they freely evolved to (or forced into). For those pushing it on health care, how often do you hear the flip side, the costs? and I don't mean just the direct financial costs.
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/03/2008 @ 11:12pm
NPR has been running a series on health care in Europe; I heard Germany this morning. You can probably check out the whole series on their web-site. Then you can do a cost-benefit analysis both of providing care in different ways, and also of not providing care.
Posted by ramara at 07/04/2008 @ 02:48am
Happy.. "Exxon lost billions trying to turn shale into oil and finally pulled the plug when subsidies was scrapped. "
I found this letter of interest regarding the evil oil companies and their influence on prices at the pump...this is a fallicy of truth for the libs..
"This was sent by a friend. Quite lengthy but worth the read..
Sorry, IBBLE..
Subject: Why are gasoline prices so high?
Bill Phillips spent nearly 50 years in the US oil and gas industry; most of his career was with the Phillips Petroleum Company. Bill is a descendant of Frank Phillips. Frank Phillips, along with his brother Lee Eldas (L.E.) Phillips, Sr., founded the original Phillips Petroleum Company in 1917 in Bartlesville, OK. Do you remember Phillips 66 gas stations? Phillips Petroleum Company merged with Conoco, Inc. in 2002 to form the current ConocoPhillips oil company.
So, when Bill talks about oil and gas issues, I tend to listen - very closely. I think that you will find Bill's thoughts and facts very revealing, very compelling and very difficult to argue with.
May 28, 2008
"Big Oil"
Did you know that the United States does NOT have any big oil companies. It's true: the largest American oil company, Exxon Mobil, is only the 14th largest in the world, and is dwarfed by the really big oil companies--all owned by foreign governments or government-sponsored monopolies--that dominate the world's oil supply.
With 94% of the world's oil supply locked up by foreign governments, most of which are hostile to the United States, the relatively puny American oil companies do not have access to enough crude oil to significantly affect the market and help bring prices down. Thus, ExxonMobil, a "small" oil company, buys 90% of the crude oil that it refines for the U.S. market from the big players, i.e, mostly-hostile foreign governments. The price at the U.S. pump is rising because the price the big oil companies charge ExxonMobil and the other small American companies for crude oil is going up as the value of the American dollar goes down. They will eventually bleed this country into printing even more money and we will go into runway inflation once again as we did under the Carter Democratic reign.
This is obviously a tough situation for the American consumer. The irony is that it doesn't have to be that way. The United States--unlike, say, France--actually has vast petroleum reserves. It would be possible for American oil companies to develop those reserves, play a far bigger role in international markets, and deliver gas at the pump to American consumers at a much lower price, while creating many thousands of jobs for Americans. This would be infinitely preferable to shipping endless billions of dollars to Saudi Arabia, Russia and Venezuela to be used in propping up their economies.
So, why doesn't it happen? Because the Democrat Party--aided, sadly, by a handful of Republicans--deliberately keeps gas prices high and our domestic oil companies small by putting most of our reserves off limits to development. China is now drilling in the Caribbean, off Cuba but our own companies are barred by law from developing large oil fields off the coasts of Florida and California. Enormous oil-shale deposits in the Rocky Mountain states could go a long way toward supplying American consumers' needs, but the Democratic Congress won't allow those resources to be developed. ANWR contains vast petroleum reserves, but we don't know how vast, because Congress, not wanting the American people to know how badly its policies are hurting our economy, has made it illegal to explore and map those reserves, let alone develop them.
In short, all Americans are paying a terrible price for the Democratic Party's perverse energy policies. I own some small interests in tiny, 4 barrel-per-day oil wells in Wyoming. We have 14 agencies that have iron-hand jurisdiction over us. If we drop any oil on the ground when the refinery truck comes to pick up oil from our holding tanks, we are fined. Yet down the road the state will spray thousands of gallons of used oil on a dirt road to control dirt. When it rains that oil runs into rivers and creeks. Yet a cup of oil on the ground at our wellhead is a $50,000 EPA fine plus additional fines from state regulating agencies. They treat oil as if it were plutonium that has the potential to leak into the environment. We are fined if our dirt burms are not high enough around a holding tank, yet the truck that picks up our oil runs down the road at 60 mph with no burm around it. People wonder why there is no more exploration in this country. It's because of the regulators; people who have lived their whole lives doing nothing but imposing fines on small operators like us for doing mostly nothing.
So, America enjoy your $4.00 per gallon gasoline. Your dollar is now worth 0.62 Euro-Cents. The lack of American production of GNP, the massive trade deficit (as labor markets have moved overseas to fight insanely high union imposed labor costs in America) and the run away printing of money (backed by nothing of value here in America) has caused the dollar to become more worthless on the international market. And that's where our oil comes from. It's paid for with dollars that become more worthless everyday. If we had just kept par with the Euro we'd be paying $62 dollars per barrel for oil (42 gallons) or about $1.50 instead of $2.50 a gallon for crude oil.
What the US government also does not tell you is that it is the leaseholder and royalty recipient of most oil production and receives 25% of the gross oil sales before we pay for electricity to lift the oil, propane to keep the oil-water separators from freezing in the winters. We pay a pumper to visit each well everyday plus we have equipment failures all the time. We pay for that out of our 75% of gross sales. The government does not share in any expenses to run any production well. So, if the Big Oil Companies are making record profits, then so is the federal government from it's 25% tax on every molecule of oil sold to a refinery in this country. Why isn't the government on the stand for "Record" profits? What you don't see is this 25% of the sales price of crude oil being siphoned away by the government. That money plus the road taxes, state taxes, etc. amounts to over $1 per gallon of gasoline you are buying while the governments only admit to about 50 cents per gallon.
To all you Democrats, when you go vote for your candidate, a blazing liberal like Barrack Hussein Obama or Hillary Clinton, just keep in mind that their liberal spending habits will further decrease the value of the American dollar on the world market and your gasoline costs will hike even higher. As they introduce more give-away programs, raise taxes on everyone to pay people not to produce or work, your dollar will continue to dwindle on the world market and you will be paying $10.00 per gallon at the next election. Cheap hydrocarbon fuel is all over. Enjoy! Enjoy the fruits of your decision to elect these folks when you are there in that voting booth and you stab your pin through a Democrat's name.
William "Bill" Phillips
Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/04/2008 @ 10:26am
To all you Democrats, ....... Enjoy the fruits of your decision to elect these folks when you are there in that voting booth and you stab your pin through a Democrat's name.
William "Bill" Phillips
Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/04/2008 @ 10:26am
I knew there would be another, more serious day of reckoning on our f*&ked over non-energy policy! The only thing I could not predict, was how fast the prices rose as the margin of world production capacity over demand narrows. Now, even a supply disruption of a few hundred thousand bbls, coupled with an inventory drawdown, leads immediately to multi-dollar jumps!
The largest chunk of easily increased capacity lies in Iraq.....a couple of million bbls per day....McCain needs to couple this worthwhile goal to a Victory in Iraq stance. Longer term, we can increase US production by another couple million bbls!
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/04/2008 @ 11:17am
.....you can do a cost-benefit analysis both of providing care in different ways, and also of not providing care.
Posted by ramara at 07/04/2008 @ 02:48am
The analysis you're thinking of is the `standard' type we periodically see produced by pro/con typed advocacy studies.
What I was really referring to, under socialized medicine, is something like these:
How many bright youths who might otherwise gone into medicine or medical R&D, will instead, choose to do some other more rewarding and challenging careers?
With low margins for patented drugs, how many innovative drugs or treatments won't be developed and how many lives these never-to-be drugs/treatments could have saved?
With UHC, how many uninsured people who actually takes some care in their health, and are very judicious in making decisions to seek treatments with their own money (not every 102 degree fever from a cold or something routine, need much more than Tylenol and taking it easy for a few days), will instead, `let loose' once health care is free?
There are scores of `costs' that simply just can't be computed but I do believe, in the long wrong, will be very substantial. I don't deny that more people will be covered (the ~30 million uninsured now, legal ones), but for the other 270 million, the un-calculatable costs will be enormous.
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/04/2008 @ 11:34am
The largest chunk of easily increased capacity lies in Iraq.....a couple of million bbls per day....McCain needs to couple this worthwhile goal to a Victory in Iraq stance. Longer term, we can increase US production by another couple million bbls!
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/04/2008 @ 11:17am
I agree....
But,but,but... how will we save the planet from global warming/cooling/whatever it is this year?
And will ALGORE have to pay a windfall profits eax on carbon indulgences?
Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/04/2008 @ 12:07pm
The largest chunk of easily increased capacity lies in Iraq.....a couple of million bbls per day....McCain needs to couple this worthwhile goal to a Victory in Iraq stance. Longer term, we can increase US production by another couple million bbls!
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/04/2008 @ 11:17am
I agree....
Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/04/2008 @ 12:07pm
IT'S NOT YOUR OIL!
the price wouldn't change.
you guys don't understand.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/04/2008 @ 12:57pm
IT'S NOT YOUR OIL!
the price wouldn't change.
you guys don't understand.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/04/2008 @ 12:57pm
No, it is not my oil, nor EXXONS...
Iraq would own the oil and a surplus of 2 million brrls a day from Iraq alone will affect the price...
YOU do not understand.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/04/2008 @ 1:32pm
Yep, FZ doesn't understand!
Today, a bomb blows out a 200k bbl pipeline and the price jumps! A hurricane comes and knock out half-million bbl, price will skyrocket by $10+! That's because there is literally no margin of excess production capacity.
To add several million bbls of capacity will eliminate, or at a minimum mute, the effects of temp. losses and also take ALL new forward contracts on oil prices down which in turn, will force speculators to dump near-term oil!
Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/04/2008 @ 2:25pm
2HAPPY
of course.
but it's only going to go up in the long term.
the pizza's running out. fewer and fewer slices left. and chef oily is retiring.
shore up the dollar. invest in the post pizza game.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/04/2008 @ 2:48pm
2HAPPY
of course.
but it's only going to go up in the long term.
the pizza's running out. fewer and fewer slices left. and chef oily is retiring.
shore up the dollar. invest in the post pizza game.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/04/2008 @ 2:48pm
Only if you close down the pizzaria...
..let the pizza man work on making pizzas, instead of listening to the man who never made a pizza, but ate one while staying in a Holiday Inn Express one night...ie..libs in congress and Obie..
Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/04/2008 @ 8:06pm
and the chef isn't retiring..you cut off his ability to get flour by closing down the wheat fields and are now are trying to get him to bake pie..
Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/04/2008 @ 8:07pm
"The capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert to fleece the people." -- Abraham Lincoln
Posted by OldUncleDave at 07/05/2008 @ 4:32pm
"The capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert to fleece the people." -- Abraham Lincoln
Posted by OldUncleDave at 07/05/2008 @ 4:32pm