The Day the Earth Still Stood

Inauguration day!

Gazillions of Americans descended on Washington. The rest of us were watching on TV or checking out streaming video on our computers. No one was paying attention to anything else. Every pundit in sight was nattering away all day long, as they will tomorrow and, undoubtedly, the next day about whatever comes to mind until we get bored. And in the morning, when this post is still hanging around in your inbox, you'll be reading your newspaper on… well, you know… the same things: Obama's speech! So many inaugural balls! Etc., etc.

So I'm thinking of this post as a freebie, a way to lay out a little news about the world that no one will notice. And all I can say -- for those of you who aren't reading this anyway, and in the spirit of the clunky 1951 sci-fi classic, The Day the Earth Stood Still -- is: Klaatu barada nikto!

Okay, no actual translation of that phrase (to the best of Wikipedia's knowledge) exists. We do know that, when invoked, the three words acted as a kind of "fail-safe" device, essentially disarming the super-robot Gort (which arrived on the Washington Mall by spacecraft with the alien Klaatu). That was no small thing, since Gort was capable not just of melting down tanks but possibly of ending life on this planet. Still, I remain convinced, based on no evidence whatsoever, that the phrase could also mean: "Whew! We're still here!"

Though I skipped the recent remake of the film, which bombed (so to speak), I consider this post my remake, though with a slightly altered title:

January 20, 2009: The Day the Earth Still Stood.

Klaatu barada nikto has, by the way, been called "the most famous phrase ever spoken by an extraterrestrial." After watching the final press conference of George W. Bush, I wonder.

Now, whether Bush was the extraterrestrial and Dick Cheney the super (goof-it-up) robot, or vice-versa, is debatable, but whatever the case, let's celebrate the obvious: We're still here, more or less, and they're gone. Dick Cheney to fish and shoot. George W. to think big, big thoughts at his still-to-be-built library. Let's face it, on the day on which Barack Obama has taken the oath of office, that constitutes something of a small miracle. But a nagging question remains: just how small?

Or rather, just how large is the disaster? If the Earth still stands, how wobbly is it?

In fact, our last president -- in that remarkable final news conference of his ("the ultimate exit interview," he called it) in which he swanned around, did his anti-Sally Fields imitation (you don't like me, right now, you don't like me!), sloshed in self-pity while denouncing self-pity, brimmed with anger, and mugged (while mugging the press) -- even blurted out one genuine, and startling, piece of news. With the Washington press corps being true to itself to the last second of his administration, however, not a soul seemed to notice.

Reporters, pundits, and analysts of every sort focused with laser beam predictability on whether the President would admit to his mistakes in Iraq and elsewhere. In the meantime, out of the blue, Bush offered something strikingly new and potentially germane to any assessment of our moment.

Here's what he said:

"Now, obviously these are very difficult economic times. When people analyze the situation, there will be -- this problem started before my presidency, it obviously took place during my presidency. The question facing a President is not when the problem started, but what did you do about it when you recognized the problem. And I readily concede I chunked aside some of my free market principles when I was told by [my] chief economic advisors that the situation we were facing could be worse than the Great Depression.

"So I've told some of my friends who said -- you know, who have taken an ideological position on this issue -- why did you do what you did? I said, well, if you were sitting there and heard that the depression could be greater than the Great Depression, I hope you would act too, which I did. And we've taken extraordinary measures to deal with the frozen credit markets, which have affected the economy."

Hold onto those "worse than the Great Depression… greater than the Great Depression" comments for a moment and let's try to give this a little context. Assumedly, our last president was referring to his acceptance of what became his administration's $700 billion bailout package for the financial system, the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008. He signed that into law in early October. So -- for crude dating purposes -- let's assume that his "chief economic advisors," speaking to him in deepest privacy, told him in perhaps early September that the U.S. was facing a situation that might be "worse than the Great Depression."

By then, the Bush administration had long publicly rejected the idea that the country had even entered a recession. As early as February 28, 2008, at a press conference, Bush himself had said: "I don't think we're headed to a recession, but no question we're in a slowdown." In May, his Council of Economic Advisers Chairman Edward Lazear had been no less assertive: "The data are pretty clear that we are not in a recession." At the end of July in a CNBC interview, White House Budget Director Jim Nussle typically reassured the public this way: "I think we have avoided a recession."

By late September, the president, now campaigning for Congress to give him his bailout package, was warning that we could otherwise indeed "experience a long and painful recession." But well into October, White House press spokesperson Dana Perino still responded to a question about whether we were in a recession by insisting, "You know I don't think that we know."

Lest you imagine that this no-recession verbal minuet was simply a typical administration prevarication operation, for much of the year top newspapers (and the TV news) essentially agreed to agree. While waiting for economic confirmation that the nation's gross national product had dropped in at least two successive quarters, the papers reported increasingly grim economic news using curious circumlocutions to avoid directly calling what was underway a "recession." We were said, as former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan put it in February, to be at "the edge of a recession," a formulation many reporters picked up, or "near" one, or simply in an "economic slowdown," or an "economic downturn."

At the beginning of December, the National Bureau of Economic Research, a private group of leading economists, made "official," as CNN wrote, "what most Americans have already believed about the state of the economy" (no thanks to the press). We were not only officially in a recession, the Bureau announced, but, far more strikingly, had been since December 2007. For at least a year, that is. Suddenly, "recession" was an acceptable media description of our state, without qualifiers (though you can look high and low for a single major paper which then reviewed its economic labeling system, December 2007-December 2008, and questioned its own coverage.) Recession simply became the new norm.

Now, as times have gotten even tougher, it's become a commonplace turn of phrase to call what's underway "the worst" or "deepest" economic or financial crisis "since the Great Depression." Recently, a few brave economic souls -- in particular, columnist Paul Krugman of the New York Times -- have begun to use the previously verboten "d" word, or even the "GD" label more directly. As Krugman wrote recently, "Let's not mince words: This looks an awful lot like the beginning of a second Great Depression." But he remains the exception to the public news rule in claiming that, barring the right economic formula from the new Obama administration, we might well find ourselves in a situation as bad as the Great Depression.

Now, let's return to our last president's news conference and consider what he claims his "chief economic advisors" told him in private last fall. His statement was, in fact, staggeringly worse than just about anything you can presently read in your newspapers or see on the TV news. What was heading our way, he claimed he was told, might be "worse" or "greater" than the Great Depression itself. Admittedly, John Whitehead, the 86-year-old former chairman of Goldman Sachs, suggested in November that the current economic crisis might turn out to be "worse than the [Great] depression." But on this, he was speaking as something of a public minority of one.

Stop for a minute and consider what Bush actually told us. It's a staggering thought. Who even knows what it might mean? In the United States, for example, the unemployment rate in the decade of the Great Depression never fell below 14%. In cities like Chicago and Detroit in the early 1930s, it approached 50%. So, worse than that? And yet in the privacy of the Oval Office, that was evidently a majority view, unbeknownst to the rest of us.

It's possible, of course, that Bush's "chief economic advisors" simply came up with a formulation so startling it could wake the dead or make a truly lame-duck president quack. Still, doesn't it make you wonder? What if, a year from now, the same National Bureau of Economic Research announces that, by January 2009, we were already in a depression?

I'm only saying that, on the question of just how steadily the Earth now stands, the verdict is out. Recent history, cited above, indicates how possible it is that, on this question, we are in the dark.

And one more thing, while we're on the subject of recessions and depressions, what if what's happening isn't, prospectively, the worst since the Great Depression, or as bad as the Great Depression, or even, worse than the Great Depression. What if it's something new? Something without a name or reference point? What then? How do we judge what's still standing in that case?

Standing Questions

If I were the Obama administration, I might be exceedingly curious about a couple of other "standing" questions right now. Here's one I might ask, for example: Just what kind of a government are the Obamanians really inheriting? When, tomorrow, they settle into the Oval Office -- or its departmental and agency equivalents -- and begin opening all the closets and drawers, what are they going to find that Bush's people have left behind?

This is no small matter. After all, they are betting the store on an enormous economic stimulus package -- approximately $550 billion in pump-priming government spending, and another $275 billion in tax cuts of various sorts, according to the present plan in the House of Representatives. All kinds of possibilities are being proposed from daringly experimental renewable energy projects to computerizing health-care records and building a national "smart" electricity grid, not to speak of rebuilding an infrastructure of bridges, roads, levees, and transport systems known to be in a desperate state of disrepair.

But what if the federal government slated to organize, channel, and oversee that spending is itself thoroughly demoralized and broken? What then?

We know that, after eight catastrophic years, some parts of it are definitely in an advanced state of wear and tear. The Justice Department is a notorious, demoralized wreck. So, infamously, is the Federal Emergency Management Agency. So, for that matter, is the whole Department of Homeland Security, as it has been ever since it was (ill) formed in 2002. So, evidently, is the CIA. Who knows what condition the eviscerated Environmental Protection Agency is in, or the Housing Department, or the Interior Department, or the Treasury Department, or the Energy Department after these years of thoroughgoing politicization in which all those crony capitalist pals of the Bush administration and all those industry lobbyist foxes were let loose among the federal chickens meant to oversee them?

In those same years, huge new complexes of interests formed around certain agencies, especially the Department of Homeland Security, and all sorts of government functions were privatized and outsourced, often to crony corporations and often, it seems, expensively and inefficiently. Who knows how well any parts of our government now function?

All I'm saying is that it can take months, or even years, to restore an agency in disrepair or a staff in a state of massive demoralization. In the meantime, how effectively will those agencies and departments direct the Obama stimulus package? The manner in which the Treasury Department threw $350 billion down a banking hole in these last frenetic months should certainly give us pause, especially since the banking system has been anything but rescued. In the end, the U.S. government can order up hundreds of billions of dollars, but applying them well may be another matter entirely. What if, that is, the government now supposed to save us isn't itself really standing? What if it, too, needs to be saved?

And let's not forget the world out there. If you watched Secretary of State designate Hillary Clinton breeze through her confirmation hearings, she seemed like the wonky picture of confidence, mixing the usual things you say in Washington ("We are not taking any option off the table at all") with promises of new policies. Looking at her, or our other new and recycled custodians of empire, it's easy enough to avoid the obvious thought: that they are about to face a world -- from Latvia to Somalia, Gaza to Afghanistan -- which may be in far greater disarray than we imagine.

Only the other day, for instance, in a hardly noticed report, "Joint Operating Environment (JOE 2008)," the U.S. Joint Forces Command on worldwide security threats suggested that "two large and important states bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse." One -- Pakistan -- was no surprise, though all sorts of potentially catastrophic scenarios lurk in its nasty brew of potential economic collapse, tribal wars, terrorism, border disputes, and nuclear politics. The other country, however, should make any American sit back and wonder. It's Mexico.

Here's the money passage in the report: "The Mexican possibility may seem less likely, but the government, its politicians, police and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and press[ed] by criminal gangs and drug cartels. How that internal conflict turns out over the next several years will have a major impact on the stability of the Mexican state. Any descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone."

Of course, it could just be a matter of part of the U.S. military looking for new arenas of potential expansion, but let's remember that we're no longer in the frightening but strangely orderly Cold War world, nor even on a planet any longer overshadowed by a "lone superpower," the "New Rome." No indeed. Events in Mumbai reminded us of this recently. There, ten trained terrorists armed with the most ordinary of weapons and off-the-shelf high-tech equipment of a sort that could be bought in any mall managed to bring two nuclear-armed superpowers to the edge of conflict. Ten men. Imagine that.

We don't know what the world holds for us in the Obama years, but it's not likely to be pretty and some of what's heading our way may not be in any of the familiar playbooks by which we've been operating for the past half century-plus. We don't yet know if whole countries, even whole continents, may collapse in the economic, or environmental, rubble of our twenty-first century moment, or what that would actually mean.

I'm no expert on any of this, but on this day of anxious celebration, here's my question: Is the world still standing? Do you know? Really? Does anyone?

Comments (80)

1. Apocalyptic visions for the 'winner's' side too! Unreal.

   Free trade hasn't given Mexico the tools it needs to improve itself?

   Shocking.

   Just like us rescuing Iraq will not really change their culture.

   Can we focus on our own disrepair for once?

   Posted by urmygyro at 01/20/2009 @ 3:58pm

2. Q. And the moral of the story?

   A. Let's not get complacent.

   Thanks for the fine post, Tom, as usual.

   Here's a couple more stellar (and short) reads from a couple more stellar voices:

   Rober Fisk:

   tinyurl.com/9gd477

   Chuck Spinney:

   counterpunch.org/spinney01202009.html

   Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 4:05pm

3. Don't forget "klaatu verada niktu"....the spell words that Ash was SUPPOSED to say over the "Necronomicon" before retrieving it in "Army of Darkness"!

   BTW, if SCJCHER shows up and says he "hopes Obama will be a successful President"....don't believe it. His mentor doesnt-

   http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/20/limbaugh-obama-fail/

   Posted by Mask at 01/20/2009 @ 4:25pm

4. Our insatiable demand for a buzz, could also be mentioned as a significant underlying cause of the current lawlessness in Mexico.

   Our destructive behavior has some serious consequences. Maybe heroin chic isn't really so chic. Maybe it's time to revisit the laws?

   Posted by freiheit1 at 01/20/2009 @ 4:51pm

5. Posted by urmygyro at 01/20/2009 @ 3:58pm

   1. They've always had those visions.

   2. C'mon, you're talking Mexico here.

   3. There's nothing to be shocked about.

   4. Nor will it change their perchant for killing each other either.

   5. Sure, just haul in a few Mexican nationals.

   Posted by ACook at 01/20/2009 @ 4:53pm

6. One note of irony to mention........

   My recent post at KvH's blog:

   The power establishment in DC has made up its mind, and no amount of persuasion --or facts on the ground-- will apparently shake its conviction that the U.S. must have a deeply entrenched boot print as close as possible to the richest sources of oil on the planet.

   That this is a recipe for disaster, or even potentially some version of Armageddon completely escapes the mind of "the planners".

   The obvious answer apparently never even dawns on them:

   We still have some coercive strength left if we leave now. Why not simply leave and at the same time invest heavily in a new energy grid at home with a heavy emphasis on conservation and clean cheap renewable energy resources? It would be the equivalent of killing 20 birds with one stone, or as Tom Friedman has said, "It's a win-win-win-win-win etc... strategy".

   Unfortunately, I am beginning to believe that the most likely outcome for the U.S. in the near term --perhaps the next ten years or even much less-- is a complete economic collapse.

   We just witnessed the opening salvo last September.

   Posted by b_kool_66 on 1/14/09 @ 4:03pm

   ~The "next ten years or even much less" was meant, essentially to soften the blow. As the Tom Dispatch, above, indicates the forces are in place for a much swifter ass-kicking.

   Like Tom Englehardt (or any of us for that matter) I'm not a clairvoyant, but it's not a foolish thing to read the signs as best as one can and brace for the worst while pushing for the best.

   Sounds almost like the patriotic thing to do doesn't it? Kinda like the Boyscouts, even.

   Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 4:57pm

7. I woke up the next day and somehow things have remained the same as I look into my crystal ball it's all the same except the green police have become the new world order and carbon credits the new currency. The new nation lies at a little up start called blackcoptermedia.com, the old nation well its still here.

   Posted by thesid at 01/20/2009 @ 5:17pm

8. Damn black, hovering mosquitos........

   I digress.....

   Here's a worthwhile one:

   A Citizen's Oath of Office By ROBERT JENSEN

   Eight long years ago at a counter-inaugural event in Austin, TX, I administered a "Citizen's Oath of Office" to the people who had come together on the steps of the state Capitol to challenge the legitimacy of the incoming Bush administration and its right-wing agenda. In 2005 I offered a revised version that expanded on our duties during even more trying times.

   In 2009, we welcome a far saner administration but also face far deeper problems, and hence such a citizen's oath is as necessary as ever. The Obama administration will no doubt step back from the reckless and reactionary policies of the past eight years, but the core problems of empire and economics -- U.S. domination around the world and corporate domination at home and abroad -- remain as threatening as ever. The robotic talk among Democrats of pressing on in "the right war" in Afghanistan (allegedly to fight terrorism) and a continued faith in the predatory capitalist system (albeit softened slightly in the face of potential collapse) offer little hope for meaningful change at the deep level so desperately needed.

   As we celebrate the end of an eight-year disaster, we should recommit to the ongoing work required to create a truly just and sustainable world. With that work in mind, here's my suggestion for a 2009 Citizen's Oath of Office, with new language added in brackets:

   Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 5:26pm

9. "I do solemnly pledge that I will faithfully execute the office of citizen of the United States, and that I will, to the best of my ability, help create a truly democratic world by (1) going beyond mainstream corporate news media to seek out information about important political, economic, and social issues; (2) engaging fellow citizens, including those who disagree with me, in serious discussion and debate about those issues; (3) committing as much time, energy, and money as possible to help build [authentic] grassroots political organizations that can pressure politicians to put the interests of people over profit and power; and (4) connecting these efforts to global political and social movements fighting the U.S. empire abroad, where it does the most intense damage. I will continue to resist corporate control of the world, resist militarism, resist any roll-back of civil rights, and resist illegitimate authority in all its forms. [And I will commit to collective efforts in my local community to help build joyful alternatives to an unsustainable consumer society.]"

   I think these bracketed additions are crucial. First, adding "authentic" as a modifier of "grassroots political organizations" reminds us that the campaign to elect Obama was not a movement, no matter how many times he uses that term. It was a campaign to elect a candidate from one of the country's two major parties, both of which are committed to imperial domination and predatory capitalism. That isn't to argue there is no difference between candidates, but to remind us that a slogan-driven electoral campaign for such a party is not a people's movement.

   Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 5:26pm

10. Authentic movements for justice do not arise out of the Republican or Democratic parties but from people coming together to challenge illegitimate authority rather than accommodate it. Strategic decisions about voting do not replace organizing.

    Second, in addition to traditional movement building, it's clearer than ever that we must focus some of our resources on strengthening on-the-ground alternatives to an extractive industrial economy that is undermining the ability of the ecosystem to sustain life. Those local experiments, such as worker-owned cooperatives and community-supported agriculture, will be increasingly important as the dominant culture proves itself unable to cope with economic and ecological collapse that is no longer a matter for speculation regarding the distant future but a reality we must face now.

    We can't predict the exact texture and timing of that collapse, but we can know it is coming and confront the need for real change. Imagine we are riding on a train hurtling 100 miles per hour on tracks that end at the edge of a cliff. The engineer is replaced by someone who wants to slow the train down to 50 miles per hour but is committed to staying on the same tracks. Slowing down may buy us some time, but the cliff remains.

    So, like many others on Tuesday I will breathe a sigh of relief when Obama is sworn in, but I won't breathe easy.

    ~Robert Jensen @ Counterpunch

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 5:26pm

11. Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 5:26pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    One thing for certain Kool, we can't go on the way we are. Mother Earth is going to say no - she already is. We had better adopt a philosophy of living within our means; 'means' being inclusive of all the negative externalties such as pollution, deforestation, global climate change, etc.

    Don't know if you remember a BBC series called by Ascent of Man with Jacob Bronowski (deceased 1974). The series was dedicated to monumental or quantum leaps in the ascent of man such as use of fire, use of tools, transition from hunting to agriculture, understanding of laws physics and the universe, age of industrialization, etc. Bronowski was captivating.

    If we change our ways to sustainable living, I believe that would be a quantum leap worthy of a chapter in Ascent of Man. If we don't change voluntarily, Mother Nature will change it for us, and she may write the last chapter in the Ascent of Man.

    Posted by OneVote at 01/20/2009 @ 6:07pm

12. It's specifically an essay of more than a few sentences to prevent you from reading it, Happy the Clown.

    Worked quite well, obviously.

    Hey Happ, tried any Cypermethrin lately? I'm gonna be in the Houston area soon and thought you might like to try a cocktail I made up recently.

    It's gooood stuff, Happ.

    ;-)

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:11pm

13. "Don't know if you remember a BBC series called by Ascent of Man with Jacob Bronowski"

    ~One Vote

    Haven't seen the show, but I believe I saw a book of same title perhaps in the used books section of my local bookstore. If I recall correctly, one of my favorite influences, Carl Sagan, gave heavy props to Bronowski for influencing Sagan's thought. And so it goes.

    EO Wilson's "The Future of Life" brought the point home very succinctly and beautifully as well, in regards to the havoc we wreak via habitat destruction, invasive species etc....

    Thanks for the thoughtful communique, One Vote.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:19pm

14. Thanks for the thoughtful communique, One Vote.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:19pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Don't know if its available on tape or dvd, but don't miss it if you have the chance. Yes - Bronowski's book Ascent of Man is available, but you would miss the marvelous personal presence of Bronowski. Sagan and E.O. Wilson.....wonderful Kool.

    Posted by OneVote at 01/20/2009 @ 6:28pm

15. On the topic of science, rationalism, and making a better world for ourselves and future generations.......

    I've been reading Richard Dawkins', "The God Delusion", which is, like his other books I've read, quite excellent.

    A BBC program from 2006 on related topics is available in streaming video --I've yet to watch it myself, but now's a good time.

    The Root of All Evil (Admittedly a bit of a histrionic title):

    Part one:

    tinyurl.com/2z4fz5

    Part two:

    tinyurl.com/yuvyk7

    ~Much needs to be done in order to make a brighter path to the future. A wide ranging criticism of religious dogma is one potentially rich vein for a fruitful pursuit of useful strategies for our long term survival.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:34pm

16. Tell us, OV, do you actually believe Mother Nature WON'T write the last chapter if we just change, as you want, to "sustainable living"?

    Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 01/20/2009 @ 6:20pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Regardless of what we do, there are some things that are beyond our control. The idea here Happy is that we are not complicit in our own demise. I know this is a difficult concept for you to grasp and differentiate. And yes, emerging countries want the "good life" patterned on American gross consumption and waste, but this is not sustainable, and is hastening the day of reckoning with Mother Nature.

    Posted by OneVote at 01/20/2009 @ 6:37pm

17. One Vote,

    I'll be on the lookout for "The Ascent of Man" as a future rental possibility.

    Nice reply to "Happy". I've tried to communicate with him nicely in the past, but he couldn't or wouldn't reciprocate. He's waxed longingly on these threads about having missed out on the killing fields of Vietnam (just a hair too young).

    I see him as one of the most revolting figures here at The Nation. Personally, his smugness grates on me more than anyone here, so I mostly ignore the creep, sadly.

    Oh well, others here can always try to work some sense into him --I suspect I'd be left with no alternative except to beat some sense into him if I actually met the cretin.

    :D

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:49pm

18. ~Much needs to be done in order to make a brighter path to the future. A wide ranging criticism of religious dogma is one potentially rich vein for a fruitful pursuit of useful strategies for our long term survival.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:34pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Oh gosh yes. Some of the Christian variants on total exploitation of or dominion over all natural things being god's will - and religious precepts guiding manifest destines. The very idea of heaven as an afterlife, wherein earth can be defiled on your way to a better and eternal afterlife in heaven above is a temporal view of earthly existence that deserves rigorous criticism and scrutiny. Many Christians don't buy into it anymore - and are instead viewing dominion over earth as stewardship instead of unrestrained exploitation.

    Posted by OneVote at 01/20/2009 @ 6:51pm

19. "Many Christians don't buy into it anymore - and are instead viewing dominion over earth as stewardship instead of unrestrained exploitation."

    ~OneVote @ 6:51pm

    I've noticed that movement, including the former head of the American Evangelists (if I recall correctly) who had been ripped by Falwell, and Dobson not too long ago for standing up on the environment.

    A hopeful sign.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:58pm

20. Oh well, others here can always try to work some sense into him --I suspect I'd be left with no alternative except to beat some sense into him if I actually met the cretin.

    :D

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:49pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    You know, I think he would actually enjoy it.

    Posted by OneVote at 01/20/2009 @ 7:01pm

21. A hopeful sign.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:58pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    A very good sign indeed. I think that even the most self-serving and selfish of belief systems and philosophy restrain their greed when it comes to the future of their children and their children's children on. To endanger the future of your children runs counter to religious concepts relating to propagation and reproduction, and just plain old common sense.

    Posted by OneVote at 01/20/2009 @ 7:19pm

22. I wish Obama had saved on of his great speeches for today.

    The 2004 DNC speech, the 2008 race speech, or the presidential election victory speech would have been nice.

    He sounded like "buyers remorse" today.

    Posted by bleedingheart at 01/20/2009 @ 7:53pm

23. <i>Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:58pm </i>

    Hear hear

    <i>Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:34pm </i>

    Dawkins' work is really interesting, but many of his responses to conventional theistic arguments are awful. Just wanted to put that out there.

    Posted by Thrawn at 01/20/2009 @ 8:15pm

24. There is a God....

    and I'm a pretty nice guy.

    Posted by Mask at 01/20/2009 @ 8:40pm

25. Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 01/20/2009 @ 6:20pm

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:11pm

    Hey b_kool, is there any way you can beef up that Cypermethrin a bit. Ol' HAP is much larger than your average cockaroach..

    Posted by chaoszen at 01/20/2009 @ 9:26pm

26. <i>Posted by Mask at 01/20/2009 @ 8:40pm </i>

    Eh? Not sure I follow what you're responding to there.

    Posted by Thrawn at 01/20/2009 @ 9:36pm

27. 6 billion years old?

    I thought is was only 6 thousand!

    Posted by urmygyro at 01/20/2009 @ 11:47pm

28. Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 01/20/2009 @ 10:10pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Happy - not sure what the premise of your argument is?

    Are you saying lets go ahead and exploit and defile the planet because the sun won't last forever?

    A little short sighted.

    Posted by OneVote at 01/21/2009 @ 12:08am

29. In Engelhardt The NATION has one more prize bird in its stable of vultures.

    He spends over 1600 words circling Bush's disavowal of a recession and pounces on the lame excuse that the definition of a recession, dual quarters of negative growth, had not been met.

    Then, with wings flapping, the scrawny head of the glorioled Engelhardt turns to ravenously pecking and tearing the facts bloody.

    He sees carrion everywhere, the Dept of Justice, the Treasury, Homeland Security, Environmental Protection, it is all rotten and dying with magots wiggling amid the red strands of exposed guts. He thinks ten terrorists in Mumbai almost brought the subcontinent to the edge of nuclear war, other continents are in danger of turning to rubble on their own, Mexico is on the abyss, and rising out of his overtaxed memory are aliens from Klaatu come to darken our planet. No wonder Katrina worries about the cost of medical insurance.

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/21/2009 @ 12:39am

30. A wide ranging criticism of religious dogma is one potentially rich vein for a fruitful pursuit of useful strategies for our long term survival. Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/20/2009 @ 6:34pm

    Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. I'm on board with that one. We have to address the Tim LeHaye 'Left Behind' syndrome head on. It's a strange thing, indeed, that so many people pray more for the end times than they do for the start of something new. It's easier, I guess.

    Posted by ficheye at 01/21/2009 @ 04:51am

31. Posted by Thrawn at 01/20/2009 @ 9:36pm

    Bad joke.

    Posted by Mask at 01/21/2009 @ 09:01am

32. All of blackcoptermedia.com, was grounded and fixed to the TV, after 8 years of pain a new fresh start to life. We are a new upstart who longed for this day of change. We are small and finding our way but we at blackcoptermedia, believe in our grassroots movement. such check us out and keep coming back and watch us grow and sweep across the nation. FOX is public enemy numero uno, followed by talk radio.

    Posted by thesid at 01/21/2009 @ 10:52am

33. What a joke! Both of you are comfortably in the Kucoos' nest! Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 01/21/2009 @ 10:48am

    Christine Wicker, in her book "The Fall of the Evangelical Nation", points out a disturbing fact. Many, many 'christians' profess to go to church all the time, when in fact, they may only go once or twice a year. If that. When asked, however, they find that it's better to lie about it.

    Since it's not one of the ten commandments, I guess that's forgiven. So, Happy, did you make it this week? And, by the way, that's 'cuckoo'.

    Posted by ficheye at 01/21/2009 @ 12:08pm

34. Posted by ficheye at 01/21/2009 @ 12:08pm

    HAPP likely one of those Limbaugh Christians...talk about God and how "liberals are all a bunch of atheists"....

    but too busy day trading and watching Fox News Sunday to actually go to church, except Easter and Christmas.

    Posted by Mask at 01/21/2009 @ 12:30pm

35. Any descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone."

    obama needs to develop a cold resistant coca hybrid.

    cut out the middle man.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/21/2009 @ 12:43pm

36. everyone, check "the western tradition" on Learner

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/21/2009 @ 1:02pm

37. would it kill you to post the link?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/21/2009 @ 1:06pm

38. Posted by ficheye at 01/21/2009 @ 12:08pm

    Although going to chruch every week isn't a commandment, to not lie is. Anyway, you are right in that it is easier to lie. Honesty and truth are the hardest paths to walk, IMO.

    So what Mr. Tom E. is saying is that, while the president was told that we were in a recession and a potential depression, he chose to tell the citizens something different. He and his administration downplayed it. I don't know about other working Americans, but I am an adult and can take bad news. I would have preferred that Bush told us what he was being told. Since Bush, as all presidents are, was put in place to serve, he should have said something. Don't lie or mislead. Don't treat my adult ass like a child. And people wonder why alot of Americans never believed one word that came out of his mouth. Well atleast he's gone now. Either way as working class citizens, we're gonna get screwed. unlike Bush, Obama will atleast use KY and slide in gently.

    Posted by k330k at 01/21/2009 @ 1:27pm

39. What is "Learner"?

    Posted by k330k at 01/21/2009 @ 1:27pm

40. The earth has actually been cooling for the last decade. The southern polar cap (where the majority of ice on earth is located) has grown by 5% in the last decade. The northern polar cap's ice is back to 1998 levels. And boy is it cold here in Connecticut!

    Posted by abell12ct at 01/21/2009 @ 1:34pm

41. sorry. froz is right.

    http://www.learner.org/resources/series58.html

    this is a great resource. many online courses. many subjects.

    the western tradition features the late Professor Eugen Weber.

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/21/2009 @ 1:36pm

42. http://www.thenation.com/blogs/action/ignore.mhtml?who=abell12ct

    and the moon is made of green cheese. how about a reputable citation?

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/21/2009 @ 1:37pm

43. Posted by k330k at 01/21/2009 @ 1:27pm

    I am sorry to inform you that the ten commandments do NOT tell you not to lie. It is inferred by the faith, in general, that it's not good to lie, but that's it. Here's what wikipedia says, and the first commandment (makes 11 for jews) is followed by just the Jews:

    I am the Lord your God (Jewish) You shall have no other gods before me You shall not make for yourself an idol You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy Honor your father and mother You shall not commit adultery You shall not steal You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor You shall not covet your neighbor's wife You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

    So... don't lie about your neighbor, but when asked if you go to church, have at it!

    Posted by ficheye at 01/21/2009 @ 1:39pm

44. Posted by abell12ct at 01/21/2009 @ 1:34pm

    Who'd you vote for last November for President, abell?

    Posted by Mask at 01/21/2009 @ 1:46pm

45. No need to be sorry.:) You're right, though. But one could interpret neighbor as "your fellow neighbor on this earth". Just saying. What you stated regarding the first commandment is interesting. I didn't know it was a commandment, I always took it as a given. Learned something else new today. 'Preciate the info.

    Posted by k330k at 01/21/2009 @ 1:55pm

46. http://www.learner.org/resources/series58.html

    the western tradition features the late Professor Eugen Weber.

    Posted by emile duBois @ 1:36pm

    He's pretty good --UCLA prof if I recall correctly. I've seen him on public access and enjoyed his presentation, although many here would probably find him a bit too dry for their taste, I suspect.

    Didn't know he died.

    Anyhow, for those who are interested in a light, but very informative read on religion there is Steven Prothero's, "Religious Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know --and Doesn't".

    He's a BU prof of religion and came to my attention because of an excellent op-ed at McPaper (USA Today) within the last several months.

    K330k is at least one person here who I think might enjoy perusing the book.

    By the way, I was raised in a conservative protestant household and community, and through various life experiences (including the US military), travels, and a healthy dose of reading I gradually became an atheist and a strong critic of the US war machine.

    So much for the apple not falling far from the tree, huh?

    "Vive la ecole" or some such phrase praising the benefits of free inquiry and education --I made that one up, of course, but I'm sure "emile" will set me straight.

    ;-)

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/21/2009 @ 2:53pm

47. And boy is it cold here in Connecticut! Posted by abell12ct at 01/21/2009 @ 1:34pm

    good point, weatherman.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/21/2009 @ 4:20pm

48. Posted by frosty zoom at 01/21/2009 @ 4:20pm

    Don't fret the GW Deniers, FROSTY. When none of them won the GOP nomination and McCain refused to back down on it being real and man-made...

    they became politically irrelevant. The 2012 nominee won't contradict McCain (or the science)...just talk "market solutions". Rush and his ditto-heads (and the well-funded-by-API "scientists")...are now impotent.

    Posted by Mask at 01/21/2009 @ 4:33pm

49. education is not free.

    CLOSE THE ONEGLOBE MILITARY BASES!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/21/2009 @ 4:40pm

50. education is not free.

    well if you're clever it is.

    I don't know how they do it in Canada, maybe you can enlighten.

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/21/2009 @ 6:07pm

51. "Vive la ecole" or some such phrase praising the benefits of free inquiry and education --I made that one up, of course, but I'm sure "emile" will set me straight. ;-) Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/21/2009 @ 2:53pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    well, it should be vive l'ecole.

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/21/2009 @ 6:09pm

52. He's pretty good --UCLA prof if I recall correctly. I've seen him on public access and enjoyed his presentation, although many here would probably find him a bit too dry for their taste, I suspect.

    B, he's actually quite funny. he was chair of history at UCLA. his field of expertise was not western Civ, but rather french history, though his books are wider ranging than that. "peasants into frenchmen" is a great place to start.

    I interviewed him once, he was kind and generous. I'm still learning from him.

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/21/2009 @ 6:20pm

53. Don't fret the GW Deniers, FROSTY.

    Posted by Mask at 01/21/2009 @ 4:33pm

    no worries.

    i only fret guitars, basses, banjos, and sundry others.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/21/2009 @ 6:25pm

54. taxman.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/21/2009 @ 6:27pm

55. 'Preciate the info. Posted by k330k at 01/21/2009 @ 1:55pm

    Thanks for the civil return post. I was as surprised as you to find the commandments didn't specify that you shouldn't lie in general. It's so obvious that a person shouldn't lie that the error is probably universal unless you are a card carrying commandments sort of person. Hail Wikipedia!

    Posted by ficheye at 01/21/2009 @ 7:03pm

56. there are times when a lie is the best tactic. there are times when honesty would be brutal. it's called civilization

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/21/2009 @ 8:07pm

57. it's called civilization Posted by emile duBois at 01/21/2009 @ 8:07pm

    Indubitably.

    Posted by ficheye at 01/21/2009 @ 9:42pm

58. Posted by frosty zoom at 01/21/2009 @ 6:25pm

    Stereotypical Canadian.....i.e. funny!

    heheh

    Posted by Mask at 01/21/2009 @ 10:39pm

59. there are times when a lie is the best tactic. there are times when honesty would be brutal. it's called civilization

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/21/2009 @ 8:07pm

    you are the best poster, ever.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/22/2009 @ 12:07am

60. but NOT by great subsidies and forcing still plentiful resources aside.

    Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 01/22/2009 @ 12:57am

    cool. can't wait to burn those old tires next to your place.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/22/2009 @ 01:02am

61. all of which WILL cost LONG TERM damage to our standard of living and that of the developing world that depends on the consumption of the developed world.

    Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 01/22/2009 @ 12:57am

    We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. ~Native American Proverb

    God forbid that India should ever take to industrialism after the manner of the west... keeping the world in chains. If [our nation] took to similar economic exploitation, it would strip the world bare like locusts. ~Mahatma Gandhi

    you are made from the earth ~ frosty zoom

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/22/2009 @ 01:07am

62. Better Air Quality Makes U.S. Lives Longer, Harvard Study Says

    By Elizabeth Lopatto

    Jan. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Cleaner air added about five months to life expectancy in the U.S. over two decades, according to a study by Harvard School of Public Health and Brigham Young University researchers.

    Decreasing pollution from fine air particles by about one- third, or 7 micrograms per cubic meter, was responsible for an almost five-month increase in longevity, data from 51 cities showed. In the cities that cleaned up the most, including Pittsburgh and Buffalo, residents added as much as 10 extra months to their lives, according to the report in tomorrow's New England Journal of Medicine.

    Pollution from small particles is known to cause heart attacks, early death, decreased lung function and asthma, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. The particles, which come from coal plants, car exhaust, fireplaces, furnaces and other sources, are common in urban areas and were more tightly regulated beginning in 1997.

    "Past reductions in air pollution have improved life expectancy," said the study's lead author, C. Arden Pope, a professor of economics at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah. "This tells us policy is paying off in terms of human longevity as well as environmental quality."

    The study's 51 cities included Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Denver, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Chicago and Indianapolis.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=afouwJXxC0F4

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/22/2009 @ 01:09am

63. "... the U.S. must have a deeply entrenched boot print as close as possible to the richest sources of oil on the planet.

    That this is a recipe for disaster, or even potentially some version of Armageddon completely escapes the mind of "the planners"." b-kool

    That pretty much draws an accurate picture of US gazing down into our grave. The key decisions have already been made. It's Obama's job to carry out the suicidal policies as palatably as possible, avoiding the arrogant atmospherics & clumsy demeanor of the last bunch, but getting the fatal job done nonetheless. Should he try to break free, he won't last.

    Bit of a dampener, but reality isn't a feelgood exercise, while Big Pharma is ready to sell you whatever meds you need to create the silver linings.

    Posted by sloper at 01/22/2009 @ 05:05am

64. there are times when a lie is the best tactic. there are times when honesty would be brutal. it's called civilization Posted by emile duBois at 01/21/2009 @ 8:07pm you are the best poster, ever. Posted by frosty zoom at 01/22/2009 @ 12:07am | ignore this person | warn this person

    oh you silver tongued devil. flattery will get you everywhere.

    this is Clapton when he was with Bluesbreakers. thanks

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/22/2009 @ 08:53am

65. Who'd you vote for last November for President, abell? Posted by Mask

    What does that have to do with anything?

    Posted by abell12ct at 01/22/2009 @ 08:58am

66. Posted by frosty zoom at 01/22/2009 @ 01:07am

    And again, your computer and your electric guitar are made of....

    hemp and sweetgrass reeds you grew in your organic garden?

    Posted by Mask at 01/22/2009 @ 09:39am

67. Posted by abell12ct at 01/22/2009 @ 08:58am

    It has to do with the fact that no matter what you believe about global warming...

    if you voted for John McCain (or Obama) you voted for someone to become President who believes that GW is real, man-made, and needs to be addressed.

    So regardless of what you believe...politically, it's irrelevant.

    Posted by Mask at 01/22/2009 @ 09:41am

68. you are the best poster, ever. Posted by frosty zoom at 01/22/2009 @ 12:07am | ignore this person | warn this person

    duh. now I get it.

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/22/2009 @ 09:47am

69. o regardless of what you believe...politically, it's irrelevant. Posted by Mask

    So if you voted for Obama, you want to kill unborn babies?

    Posted by abell12ct at 01/22/2009 @ 11:52am

70. hey froz, I have moved into a totally spanish neighborhood, just blocks from my old place, and I love it. I buy a mamay a week, and the batidas are heavenly. make you nostalgic for Mexico?

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/22/2009 @ 12:05pm

71. Posted by abell12ct at 01/22/2009 @ 11:52am

    It meant I support abortion rights, yes.

    And it means that if I did vote for Obama, but was opposed to abortion...I'd be an idiot to keep talking about how abortion is a scourge, since I supported a candidate who would support abortion rights.

    IOW, when you lost McCain (i.e. a nominee who believed in man-made GW)....you lost your issue. And NO future GOP nominee will reverse him.

    Posted by Mask at 01/22/2009 @ 12:09pm

72. IOW, when you lost McCain (i.e. a nominee who believed in man-made GW)....you lost your issue. And NO future GOP nominee will reverse him. Posted by Mask

    In spite of the facts?

    Posted by abell12ct at 01/22/2009 @ 12:23pm

73. In spite of the facts? Posted by abell12ct at 01/22/2009 @ 12:23pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    facts? hahahahaha. you would not know a fact from a feces.

    global warming is a fact. get used to it.

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/22/2009 @ 12:44pm

74. global warming is a fact. get used to it. Posted by emile duBois

    The temps in the PAST have risen but what caused the rise? Is it CO2 emissions. Well the rise in CO2 does correlate to rising temps but the increased levels of CO2 occur because the earth is warming not the other way around. Sunspot activity has been the lowest in decades. There has also been a decrease in volcanic activity around the globe which may have caused it. Emile have you actually researched global warming on the web or do you just believe what you are told? ( Let's try to stay away from the personal attacks. That is a sure sign that someone doesn't have the facts on their side.)

    Posted by abell12ct at 01/22/2009 @ 1:22pm

75. and it is not a fact. get used to it!

    Posted by abell12ct at 01/22/2009 @ 1:29pm

76. Hail Wikipedia!

    Posted by ficheye at 01/21/2009 @ 7:03pm

    LOL! Yes. Hail indeed!

    ---------------------------------------- "there are times when a lie is the best tactic. there are times when honesty would be brutal. it's called civilization"

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/21/2009 @ 8:07pm

    I've learned this lesson the hard way. Although when I'm speaking with adults, the truth seems to work for me. Hell, they're adults. They can take the heat. I have been called mean, cold, and a bitch. Oh well. They, like I, will be alright. I will say, as far as children, the truth maybe too much for them to handle depending on the subject.

    Side note: I'm partial to Mask and frosty as my fave posters. Your wit, however, is much appreciated. That goes for the rest of you knuckleheads as well.

    ------------------------------------- Bit of a dampener, but reality isn't a feelgood exercise, while Big Pharma is ready to sell you whatever meds you need to create the silver linings.

    Posted by sloper at 01/22/2009 @ 05:05am

    You couldn't be more right.

    Posted by k330k at 01/22/2009 @ 2:29pm

77. ... personal attacks. That is a sure sign that someone doesn't have the facts on their side.) Posted by abell12ct at 01/22/2009 @ 1:22pm

    What? Global warming again? It's cold in Minnesota; it snowed in the Pacific Northwest! Why, it's eternal winter! Any warming is just a natural cycle! Let's all take advantage of the real estate opportunities this is going to present when the ocean rises. Eventually. And the sun is at a solar minimum! By god, it's cooler than it was!

    What? Greenland, Antarctica, and Alaska have all lost over two trillion tons of land ice since 2003? It's just a fluke. Ocean currents slowing? Why, that's gonna cool down ol' Great Britain, not warm it up! What? You're telling me that this stuff is all connected and other places are gonna heat up at the same time? That's way too hard to think about! You tell me that global warming is a vast eons long cycle that is greatly influenced by the activities of man, and we could actually slow things down if we just stopped 1. procreating 2. using coal as the worlds chief source of electrical energy production. 3. Stop procreating (oops). 4. Stopped inventing, using, advocating the use of things that create heat in every possible way? Stopped creating huge forest fires on purpose? Huh? Weather systems actually invert, causing snow in the lowlands and not as much in the mountains, where it belongs? No!

    What am I saying? I'm saying that it's so incredibly complex that anyone who comes up with an unequivocal statement saying that it is not happening probably works at an occupation that would come into question if global warming was accepted as fact; and that means cash. No, we can't have that! Then you'd feel guilty about buying that Escalade. Not a personal attack, but rather a comment on willful ignorance.

    Posted by ficheye at 01/22/2009 @ 8:14pm

78. And again, your computer and your electric guitar are made of.... hemp and sweetgrass reeds you grew in your organic garden? Posted by Mask at 01/22/2009 @ 09:39am

    mask, you have a severe misconception of who i am.

    we need to stop burning oil so we can develop better plastics to make people's lives better.

    you know that.

    what sense does it make to use oil to fill up the north pacific with plastic bottles?

    por favor.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/22/2009 @ 10:50pm

79. I buy a mamay a week, and the batidas are heavenly. make you nostalgic for Mexico?

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/22/2009 @ 12:05pm

    ooooooh, mamey!

    look for chicozapote, guanabana, ¡ay! too many.

    the best ever (well not really, they're all great) is something called zapote amarillo, but you'll never find it there.

    batidas are from brazil. (i just googled that. and i googled that because in méxico that would sound something akin to a pearl necklace LOL)

    congrats.

    p.s. check out pawpaw, the only non-tropical annonaceae. grows right here in town.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pawpaw

    then again, ain't no blueberries in mexico.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/22/2009 @ 10:56pm

80. anyone who comes up with an unequivocal statement saying that it IS happening probably works at an occupation that would come into question if global warming wasn't accepted as fact; and that means cash.

    It works both ways, doesn't it?

    Posted by abell12ct at 01/26/2009 @ 09:20am