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RedditIn 1998, Grove Press published a nonfiction book, The Farrakhan Factor: African-American Writers on Leadership, Nationhood, and Minister Louis Farrakhan.
I edited the collection of fifteen essays by prominent black writers, academics, economists and historians because I felt that members of the mainstream press had hijacked the conversation about Farrakhan and black leadership in America. My goal at that time was two-fold: To allow blacks to define the meaning of political and social leadership, and to place Louis Farrakhan into historical context, in terms of the long line of blacks in the US who have been considered leaders over the decades.
Watching the Democratic presidential candidate's latest debate, the moment I've been dreading since Senator Barack Obama first announced his candidacy finally arrived: The Farrakhan Litmust Test, served up by a white male member of the establishment press, before an audience of millions.
How predictable.
How ham-fisted, bone-headed, and unproductive.
For starters, Farrakhan is not now nor has he ever been a true "leader" of black Americans. He does not practice anything approaching traditional Islamic faith, but a cobbled-together amalgam of mysticism, black nationalism, mashed up with some orthodox Muslim precepts. Second, the NOI, once perceived as a shadowy sect of black militants spoiling to overthrow Whitey, now claim only several thousand members. More important, they are far from the scariest Islamic radicals out there currently.
The anti-Semitism-by-association game that Russert attempted to play on Obama Barack failed, big time, in no small part because Obama has also been dreading that moment -- and preparing for it, too.
When Russert began his line of questioning, Obama showed the smarts and toughness required of any national leader, indulging Russert only to a point: Prodded by Russert, NBC Washington's Bureau Chief, and also by his opponent, Hillary Clinton, Obama "denounced and rejected" Farrakhan's beliefs. But wisely -- and bravely -- Obama did not throw Louis Farrakhan under that creaky bus. Being based in Chicago, Obama is probably keenly sensitive to the true standing of Farrakhan -- that of a symbolic figurehead, a bow-tied, bespectacled id for black Americans who cannot afford to say out loud what they often think about race relations in America. Also, as a 46 year-old black man who lived through the Black Power era and its aftermath, Obama is undoubtedly on to the insidious nature of the Farrakhan Litmus Test. He is not responsible for someone who decides to say publically that he is a "good guy," Obama pointed out, paraphrasing comments that Farrakhan made last weekend about the senator's candidacy.
Obama's response to Russert's follow up led him to say that he embraces Israel as "an important ally" of the US, a necessary trajectory, I suppose, if he wants to not scare off Jews in America and abroad. The anti-Semitism so often attributed to Farrakhan is indeed a part of his past rhetoric, even though Farrakhan has gone on the record repeatedly in recent years to repudiate the twenty-year old comments that initially raised ire and fear among many. (Russert referred to the infamous "gutter religion" comment made by Farrakhan during Jesse Jackson's 1984 Democratic presidential campaign, an inclusion designed to trip up Obama.)
Yet Russert conveniently omitted subsequent comments by Farrakhan in which he goes even farther than merely expressing regret for intemperate comments he'd made in the past: During a 1996 New Yorker interview with Harvard's Henry Louis Gates, Jr., Farrakhan said, "Personally, I don't know what this argument has served. Jewish people are the world leaders, in my opinion. They are some of the most brilliant people on this planet.....And people hate them sometimes because of envy, and because the Jews succeed in spite of the hatred of their Gentile brethren, or anybody else's hatred. I admire that, as God is my witness."
I suppose it was inevitable. Not much has changed among the ranks of bigfoot political journalists since the zany days of the Black Power movement, the heady turmoil of the Jackson presidential campaigns, or the fear-filled era of the Million Man March in 1995. They are still disconnected from most black and low-income Americans.
More than anything, the biggest "gotcha" to emerge from the Farrakhan Litmus Test portion of last night's debate was on the American press. Come to think of it, it raises the question of whether Russert and his counterparts in the mainstream press may find covering a Barack Obama presidential administration more challenging than covering the secrecy-obssessed Bush crowd.
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Odd juxtaposition, Ms Alexander...
first chastisement and isolation of Farrakhan as a leader of "Islamic radical" and a non-factor--
"For starters, Farrakhan is not now nor has he ever been a true "leader" of black Americans. He does not practice anything approaching traditional Islamic faith....More important, they are far from the scariest Islamic radicals out there currently."
Then, 'Farrakhan has apologized...he's not so bad'---
"Yet Russert conveniently omitted subsequent comments by Farrakhan in which he goes even farther than merely expressing regret for intemperate comments he'd made in the past:..."
which is it?
Posted by Mask at 02/27/2008 @ 3:31pm
True. Last paragraph nails it.
Posted by Lil at 02/27/2008 @ 3:45pm
Posted by MARKCANYON 02/27/2008 @ 4:47pm
MARK?!!?!?!?...attacking Farrakhan?!?!?!?!?
What's the matter, CANYON, not hard ENOUGH on the Jews for you?
BLOG | Posted 10/05/2007 @ 5:23pm Prison Reformers Finally Set Free by Matthew Blake
"For one bright moment that came to view well enough in Europe when there were no people of color to confuse the picture. Then the right people, for once, were locked up, and put on Death Row, and sent to gas chamber. For a short moment the picture was clear and honest folks knew what to do.
Working people must come to their senses. We must defend the innocent against the true enemy. We need a prisoner exchange: Blacks out, Jews in."----Posted by MARKCANYON 10/06/2007 @ 1:15pm
Posted by Mask at 02/27/2008 @ 4:52pm
Yet Russert conveniently omitted subsequent comments by Farrakhan in which he goes even farther than merely expressing regret for intemperate comments he'd made in the past: During a 1996 New Yorker interview with Harvard's Henry Louis Gates, Jr., Farrakhan said, "Personally, I don't know what this argument has served. Jewish people are the world leaders, in my opinion. They are some of the most brilliant people on this planet.....And people hate them sometimes because of envy, and because the Jews succeed in spite of the hatred of their Gentile brethren, or anybody else's hatred. I admire that, as God is my witness."/i
This omission by Russert was intentional, as it was bait to see if Obama would even "defend" Farrakhan. Most Jews are so ill-informed about who Farrakhan is, and he has become a "mythic" symbol for them for their fear of blacks uniting with Muslims around the world to the detriment of Israel.
Farrakhan is not that powerful, nor is it likely that he will be. Even Malcom X at his height was not able to have such power, so these fears of the "black unity with Muslims (against Israel or Jews)" is unreasonable.
I personally do not condone "gutter religion" comments toward "any" religion, so Farrakhan's comment 20 years ago may reflect a sense of Muslim superiority over other religions, and this is why merely apologizing for the comment may not address the "belief system" that produced the comment. Therefore, for Farrakhan to truly re-habiltate himself he would have to embrace true Islam and unite with Jews as equals; he would have to show that their religion is just as valid as his own in inspiring one to become the best incarnation of one's self.
And whether Farrakhan confronts and deals with his Islamic supremacist tendencies or not, as I said on another thread about Farrakhan, he does have some redeeming qualities and achievements in the black community. Whether it is helping to lower the recidivism rate of ex-offenders, making fathers commit to being responsible parents, or promoting self-reliance and business ownership in the black community, Farrakhan has made a positive impact.
Posted by Metteyya at 02/27/2008 @ 5:03pm
Alot people are talking about the church that Obama attends
Some of people go to churches (often catholic) where many of the leaders grope young boys... So what does that say about them... Nothing!
Some people go to churches where the pastor's practice infidelity and snort cocaine... So what does that say about them... Nothing!
Listen, I don't share Louis Farakhan views on most of what he has to say. Particularly his "White Devil" line of talk. He is a absolute nut, but so is the guy backing John McCain, so is Rush, so is Farley, and frankly so is Pat Buchannan (considering what he says on screen, i can only image his off screen charades). But the point is this... We are all connected to someone that has extreme views either directly or indirectly, knowing or unknowing.
GUT NATURE DIMPLOMACY … IS A PLUS THESE DAYS
I think Obama's response was superb. He referred to him as "Minister" which showed respect and thus preventing a complete "circus" response from the black talk radio, which would have been a huge distraction from this very important agenda to change America. The country doesn't need it, African-Americans are tired of it, and it is a complete waist of time.
WHAT HAS HE DONE… ENOUGH ALREADY IF YOU ASK ME.
Furthermore, his response was brilliant because it provided many people in the African American community with a sigh of relief that the era of "Farakhan" is over.
Quite frankly, Senator Obama's comments and his respectful yet stern approach brilliantly disarmed the millions or reluctant supporters of "Farakhan" He made it easy and comfortable to walk away (without a bunch of psychological conflict). ... To me this is the change that America needs. It's not one sided either, as he has consistently said to African-American audiences, "you to" need to change your ways. Through last weekends respectful snub "The State Of the Black Union" farce, and in last night's debate, Obama's stern, yet respectful response enabled millions of Americans comfortable "move beyond" old hang ups. For the good of the country.
WHO NEEDS TO BE A COWBOY? WHY BEAT UP THE LITTLE KIDS ON THE PLAY GROUND?
Fighting "Farakhan" is exactly what fuels his base and we already have enough "wacky" bases trying to wrestle their way into this conversation that the good Americans are having about fixing a few of our shared problems. And like most wacky bases, they really only ask for a little respect. Clinton's and old school politics just don't seem to get that.
WHITE AMERICA, THIS ONE WAS FOR YOU.
White America, you will never know how effective his response was. But you have got to believe what I say hear. Last night Senator Barak Obama won a War (while preventing the same) in one night, with one clever shot, without any bloodshed. Without a fight and without ill will, Obama won one of America's internal battles with the likes of Minister Louis Farakhan. Not by "killing" or through some sort of epic fight (the preference of Clinton) but through clever, yet respectful talk, that allowed our adversaries to disarm and embrace without losing their dignity and compromising the "good-natured" shared portion of their beliefs.
BRILLIANT.... IF YOU ONLY KNEW
Posted by dwaynedcole at 02/27/2008 @ 5:05pm
Yet Russert conveniently omitted subsequent comments by Farrakhan in which he goes even farther than merely expressing regret for intemperate comments he'd made in the past: During a 1996 New Yorker interview with Harvard's Henry Louis Gates, Jr., Farrakhan said, "Personally, I don't know what this argument has served. Jewish people are the world leaders, in my opinion. They are some of the most brilliant people on this planet.....And people hate them sometimes because of envy, and because the Jews succeed in spite of the hatred of their Gentile brethren, or anybody else's hatred. I admire that, as God is my witness."
This omission by Russert was intentional, as it was bait to see if Obama would even "defend" Farrakhan. Most Jews are so ill-informed about who Farrakhan is, that he has become a "mythic" symbol for them for their fear of blacks uniting with Muslims around the world to the detriment of Israel and Jews.
Farrakhan is not that powerful, nor is it likely that he will be. Even Malcom X at his height was not able to have such power, so these fears of "black unity with Muslims (against Israel or Jews)" is unreasonable.
I personally do not condone "gutter religion" comments toward "any" religion, so Farrakhan's comment 20 years ago may reflect a sense of Muslim superiority over other religions, and this is why merely apologizing for the comment may not address the "belief system" that produced the comment. Therefore, for Farrakhan to truly re-habiltate himself he would have to embrace true Islam and unite with Jews as equals; he would have to show that their religion is just as valid as his own in inspiring one to become the best incarnation of one's self.
And whether Farrakhan confronts and deals with his Islamic supremacist tendencies or not, as I said on another thread about Farrakhan, he does have some redeeming qualities and achievements in the black community. Whether it is helping to lower the recidivism rate of ex-offenders, making fathers commit to being responsible parents, or promoting self-reliance and business ownership in the black community, Farrakhan has made a positive impact.
Posted by Metteyya at 02/27/2008 @ 5:06pm
AMY: Obama.....say that he embraces Israel as "an important ally" of the US, a necessary trajectory, I suppose, if he wants to not scare off Jews in America and abroad.
For most of the Left, America's unending `problem' with the Mid East, and the stepped-up post-9/11 GWOT, are rooted in the Left's belief of our Unfair and Unbalanced relationship with Israel and her Arab/Muslim neighbors.....so, Obama, whose mantra is CHANGE, would seem to be the Messiah, to initiate such CHANGE.....in foreign policy! Arabs would love him, more than just his name & background!
Posted by Happy at 02/27/2008 @ 5:07pm
MARK?!!?!?!?...attacking Farrakhan?!?!?!?!?
Posted by MASK 02/27/2008 @ 4:52pm
Wrong read, MASK! MARK is attacking Obama for being a flip-flopper for political expediency! For someone truly anti-Jew and at one time, may have thought pro-Palestinian, pre-campaign Obama was an ally, one can see why MARK is pissed!
Posted by Happy at 02/27/2008 @ 5:14pm
well...russert must be doing something right - he's managed to piss off adherents of hilly and barry o.
anyway...good for barry o. once again, he scored!
farakhan is a racist.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/27/2008 @ 5:36pm
Posted by MARKCANYON 02/27/2008 @ 5:27pm
yer sucha nazi!
considering the circumstances, i don't think that qualifies as activation of godwin's law...lol...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/27/2008 @ 5:38pm
does speaking up for/sympathizing with palestinians make one "anti-jew"?
silly...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/27/2008 @ 5:40pm
Mask,
Why can't Farrakhan be both a marginal figure in the black community and be moving away from stupidities of his past? There isn't even a whiff of inconsistency here.
As for the article I fail to see how the quote at the end counts as a repudiation of his anti-semitism. He sticks with a claim, that Jews run the world, which is a part of almost every anti-semitic position, and says he admires how they survived the hatred of those around them. One could admire their perserverance and still think they practice a gutter religion. I admire the perserverance of conservatives in the 30's-70's as they soldiered on as everyone wrote them off as backwards fools. I can think that and still think that most of what they recommend is evil and to be opposed. Maybe Farrakhan has improved, but that quote doesn't show it.
Posted by dentedpat at 02/27/2008 @ 5:43pm
Why hasn't anyone been bringing up the fact that Hillary was a lawyer for the Black Panthers years ago? Would have been a good put down vs Farakan...
Posted by JOMAMMA 02/27/2008 @ 6:59pm
Or how about OJ Simpson's endorsement of Hillary? [youtube.com]
Is she going to "reject" this endorsement, or "denounce AND reject" like Obama did with Farrakhan?
She just might accept OJ's endorsement since she and OJ may share a similar dirty secret. I wonder if Vince Foster would have committed "suicide" if he didn't know so damn much about those missing Whitewater files and billing records from Hillary's corporate law days?
Posted by Metteyya at 02/27/2008 @ 7:12pm
Hey Markcanyon,
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're not black. Judging from your comments, I imagine you have a good standing in your local KKK chapter. So what's with statements like this:
"It is ridiculous to deny that Farrakhan is a black leader, indeed he is a major black leader."
Uh...no, he is not. In fact most of us view him as an embarassment, and he is even despised by many who feel he was partly responsible for the murder of Malcolm X.
"Obama is a sellout"
Why don't you leave it to the black community to decide who is a sellout, huh? He is far from it...
I could go on dissecting your racist vitriole, but I just ate...I'll leave it at that. You're an idiot.
Posted by nicR at 02/27/2008 @ 7:15pm
Jomamma, I don't want to appear as if I'm defending Hillary, but it is not fair to compare the Nation of Islam to the Black Panthers. There are many misconceptions about the black panthers...they were not racists like the Nation of Islam.
And Metteya...I respect your opinion, based on your tendency to make intelligent comments, but as far as I can tell (as a member of the "black community"), Farrakhans "achievements" are outweighed by the negativity he represents. You'll be hard-pressed to find much affection or support for Farrakhan or his message outside of a few tough urban areas of the country. Again, he is an embarassment, and many of us simply despise the Nation of Islam - myself included.
Posted by nicR at 02/27/2008 @ 7:38pm
Yeah, I can see your point...after all...Hitler did bring us the VW and gave the world Autobahns...
Posted by JOMAMMA 02/27/2008 @ 7:26pm
I think rehabilitating ex-offenders, making fathers more responsible, and black self reliance are more of a feather in the cap than some superfast highway or an automobile.
And, hey...at least Farrakhan didn't KILL any Jews, which is not what we can say about Hitler.
The "black Hitler" thing is a myth based on unreasonable fears that blacks want to harm Jews rather than enlist their support in the continued struggle for equality.
Posted by Metteyya at 02/27/2008 @ 7:39pm
Posted by HAPPY 02/27/2008 @ 5:14pm
Uh, HAPP, why are you on the side of a guy who called the Holocaust a "bright moment in history"?!?!?
No...not Farrakhan...MARKCANYON?
Posted by Mask at 02/27/2008 @ 7:50pm
"Why can't Farrakhan be both a marginal figure in the black community and be moving away from stupidities of his past?......Maybe Farrakhan has improved, but that quote doesn't show it."----Posted by DENTEDPAT 02/27/2008 @ 5:43pm
Okay, PAT, same question....which is it?
"moving away from stupidities of his past" or "maybe has improved"?
Posted by Mask at 02/27/2008 @ 7:52pm
And Metteya...I respect your opinion, based on your tendency to make intelligent comments, but as far as I can tell (as a member of the "black community"), Farrakhans "achievements" are outweighed by the negativity he represents. You'll be hard-pressed to find much affection or support for Farrakhan or his message outside of a few tough urban areas of the country. Again, he is an embarassment, and many of us simply despise the Nation of Islam - myself included.
Posted by NICR 02/27/2008 @ 7:38pm
I appreciate your complement, NICR.
I have long struggled with this "balance question" with respect to Farrakhan and it is still a tough call. Certainly, I wish he were more inclusive and didn't make boneheaded statements that offend a lot of people (myself included). But I look at many black communities like the South Side of Chicago, the South Bronx, Southeast DC, Compton, East Oakland, etc., and I don't see a lot of black leadership of ANY sort.
When I go into the prisons to do volunteer work, I am ashamed. Black women tell me "all the black men are in prison" and then I see this firsthand and it is rather shocking. There seems to be so much good intention on the part of these black men, but they keep coming back to prison, over and over again. Why does this keep happening, and how do we stop it?
I certainly do not subscribe to The Nation of Islam's religious philosophy, but if they are at least willing to take on this challenge of a "fatherless" black community when others are ducking and hiding, I say hurray for them!
During the 50s and 60s there use to be black dentists, doctors, and other business owners in the neighborhood, and now they are all gone. Where did they go, and who is going to bring them back?
Like it or not, at least Farrakhan is "positively" affecting this particular issue. I can't say this about many other leaders in the black community.
Posted by Metteyya at 02/27/2008 @ 8:02pm
Yes, Metteya, I agree. The black community hasn't had a substantial leader since they shot Dr. King. We've had a couple notable religious leaders who've posed as activists, but with all respect to Revs. Jackson & Sharpton, they are not leaders, they've never been able to galvanize a majority of support in the community.
It is also true that far too many of us are behind bars. We are incarcerated in disproportionate numbers relative to most other communities, and most of us believe that is the result of a design. (by the way, with all the talk about the black vote this year, I'm surprised that no one has really touched on the fact that something like 1 in 3 black males are ineligible to vote, based on felony convictions...again, it's part of a design).
What do we do about it? I don't know. I think we lack a lot of courage in the black community. Our popular culture is full of negative elements, encouraging anti-social behavior...nothing will change until our youth are inspired to look for different avenues in life.
I see your point about Farrakhan, but there is still something wrong with indoctrinating our people into a racist, separatist faction...and we need to look no further than the life of Malcolm Little to see an example of what happens if those people decide to leave the Nation...no, not everyone gets murdered, but they are certainly ostracized, and the Nation is not above physical violence as a means of intimidation.
So, I think above all, we need more positive role models. Despite any positive aspects of the NoI doctrine, I don't view them as role models fit for our youth.
It's tough to find positive black role models though, partly because society looks to destroy them. Whether they simply shoot them, or try to marginalize and discredit them (see Tim Russert vs. Barack Obama, 2/26/08).
Hegemony...is at the root of the problem...and that's a problem we share with everyone, even markcanyon...
Posted by nicR at 02/27/2008 @ 8:19pm
....HAPP, why are you on the side of....MARKCANYON?
Posted by MASK 02/27/2008 @ 7:50pm
His barbs at Obama is spot-on....same as what Ralph Nader believes!
I don't need to agree w/someone 20, 40, or 80% to take their sides....if you'll go back up and read, my comment preceded his and said something along the same line....that Obama ought to be FOR CHANGE that actually represents who he was before the Presidential campaign!
Unlike a lot of you, I have & will continue to take the sides of all the major candidates...though you know who I'll vote for in Nov. Same w/our fellow bloggers....It's the Fairness & Objectivity of it all, Stupid :~)
Posted by Happy at 02/27/2008 @ 8:19pm
BRILLIANT.... IF YOU ONLY KNEW
Posted by DWAYNEDCOLE
I'm white. Had a lot of friends in the BLM in the late '60s. The first generation of student activists at major universities. Learned a lot from them. Agree. Obama's answer was brilliant. Respectful but honest. How difficult his job is! He aces it better each time. And so did your response, as far a I'm concerned.
He will understand how the rest of th world speaks when he's elected. (No American president has ever understood how the rest of the world speaks, much less thinks.) It's a whole new ball-game.
Posted by Squeek at 02/27/2008 @ 8:22pm
RE: OBAMA ACES RUSSERT'S FARRAKHAN TEST
Whatever happens questions remain about Mr. Obama's religion. Why wouldn't he come forward with this, hiding something. I believe has he not been running, he would shout out, Yes, I'm a Muslim.
Posted by HelenDAO at 02/27/2008 @ 8:57pm
Posted by HELENDAO 02/27/2008 @ 8:57pm | ignore this person
REALLY? please, ms. dao...tell us all why you think he is a muslim.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/27/2008 @ 9:05pm
Posted by HELENDAO 02/27/2008 @ 8:57pm
You have sunk right down there with FRANKGRITS!
What part about Obama's statement that "I am a Christian and have had the same Christian church home for 20 years" did you NOT understand?
And are you suggesting as a Democrat, that you could not vote for a candidate whose religious background was non-Christian? Don't you realize that this makes you a religious bigot?
Posted by Metteyya at 02/27/2008 @ 9:05pm
Peace Yall,
Well once again we have the true motives of this country in your face. Since when does a person become "O.K., cool, a good boy or 'one of us'" after successfully answering the Farrakhan Question? Obama has now entered the Big Time! When they publicly FORCE you to repudiate Minister Farrakhan then you have truly arrived into the inner sanctuary of "White World" (Jewish Friendship). Now for those that are not clear or that have blurry vision if you are not going to be friendly to Israel then you don't get to play with the big folks. So the Farrakhan question is always on the table.
The web site www.finalcall.com reported:
"Min. Farrakhan went on to say that the litmus test concerning himself given to Sen. Obama should also be given to Sen. Hillary Clinton and other presidential candidates.
The Minister said he did not want the "mischief makers" to use his words to try to hurt Mr. Obama or himself."
I would caution Obama to be very careful as to not allow those that have a history of throwing the rock and hiding the hand and causing division among families to separate him from those that he has long identified with. Obama very skillfully handled Mrs. Clintons "forced - make you repudiate Minister Farrakhan" banter.
If saying I don't like somebody makes you happy then here you go I don't like such and such????? What the h*ll does that matter to anything? Or does it matter more than the American public actually knows? 23 years ago it was Reverend Jackson who was forced to denounce his own Black family to the delight of those that have a history of hate for all things not them. And they have made him do so for the last 23 years.
Mr. Obama must continue to be wise in how he handles the more sinister elements of this country and world least he find himself on the opposite side of all of the accolades of the people. Not that he is any Jesus but if you remember the story the same multitude that were screaming Hosanna in the highest ended up being the same folks screaming "Crucify Him"!
Peace,
CommunityHipHop.com
Posted by u8005 at 02/27/2008 @ 9:10pm
Posted by HELENDAO 02/27/2008
You sleeping or on drug? One picture's worth a thousand words. And it's interesting that Mr. Obama, instead of admitting he's a Muslim, feriuosly attacked the person(s) who gave it to the press. Morale enough?
Posted by HelenDAO at 02/27/2008 @ 9:32pm
I guess we should be grateful our candidates didn't agree to subject themselves to Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh. I'd sure like to see real debates with timekeepers rather than ax grinders; tough, neutral, smart Anderson Cooper type questions rather than mean, partisan, stupid questions by the usual suspects.
Posted by JFHill at 02/27/2008 @ 9:48pm
Posted by METTEYYA 02/27/2008 @ 7:39pm | ignore this person
it is widely assumed that Farakhan was involved in the murder of Malcolm X.
you would do well to find out more about Malcolm. check his speeches on you tube. he was as important as King.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/27/2008 @ 9:55pm
During the 50s and 60s there use to be black dentists, doctors, and other business owners in the neighborhood, and now they are all gone. Where did they go, and who is going to bring them back?
this is complete nonsense. really shit. Mr. Parsons is chairman of TimeWarner. that kind of thing certainly did not exist in the 50 and 60s
Posted by emile duBois at 02/27/2008 @ 9:59pm
Posted by HAPPY 02/27/2008 @ 8:19pm
Just asking, HAPP. If you feel "out of fairness" you need to defend neo-Nazis....far be it from me to stop you.
Posted by Mask at 02/27/2008 @ 9:59pm
Posted by HELENDAO 02/27/2008 @ 9:32pm
HELEN, can we expect, if Her Majesty loses Texas or Ohio next Tuesday....you to just go ahead and come out in support of McCain?
Posted by Mask at 02/27/2008 @ 10:00pm
blacks make up 3% of doctors. what the number was earlier I could not ascertain, though I believe it was smaller.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/27/2008 @ 10:06pm
Hillary Clinton lied her fanny off last night. She actually SOUGHT the endorsement in 2000 of that anti-Semitic group she claimed to reject. She only rejected them out of political convenience in the end. What a phony!
Posted by HardCoreDem at 02/27/2008 @ 10:28pm
If you feel "out of fairness" you need to defend neo-Nazis....far be it from me to stop you.
Posted by MASK 02/27/2008 @ 9:59pm
I took a `clean shot' at your wrong read of his post.....well, either wrong or a deliberate twisting to deflect the truth of MARK's point about Obama not staying true to his pre-campaign sympathies.
I don't agree w/his anti-Jew views and I don't believe I "defended" his particular views.....you're doing your usual twisting.
In any case, other than his Jewish `problem', MC makes many valid points and seems well read on history.....a liberal arts major? Like you? Literature, History & Social Sciences were never my things and took only the bare minimum for my degrees....major reason I'm the Straight Write Express....LOL!
Posted by Happy at 02/27/2008 @ 10:32pm
Posted by HELENDAO 02/27/2008 @ 9:32pm | i
ms. dao...do you know where and under what circumstances the photo was taken, dear?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/27/2008 @ 10:34pm
Um, by the way - amidst soldiers dying in Iraq and an economy that is clearly tanking - THIS becomes a big issue in the current campaign? Give me a freakin' break.
Posted by HardCoreDem at 02/27/2008 @ 10:35pm
In any case, other than his Jewish `problem', MC makes many valid points and seems well read on history....Posted by HAPPY 02/27/2008 @ 10:32pm
That sort of like "Hitler, other than his Jewish 'problem', made some valid points about national pride and the threat of Bolshevism"?
Posted by Mask at 02/27/2008 @ 10:44pm
Posted by HAPPY 02/27/2008 @ 10:32pm
BTW, HAPP.....re-read my post (Posted by MASK 02/27/2008 @ 4:52pm) above
again, saying THE HOLOCAUST was a "bright moment in history" is just MARKHIMMLER having a "problem" with Jews?
Posted by Mask at 02/27/2008 @ 10:46pm
MS. DAO? MS. DAO?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/27/2008 @ 10:59pm
ms. dao never responds. maybe she has everyone on ignore...don't need a button for that...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/27/2008 @ 11:36pm
.....sort of like "Hitler, other than his Jewish 'problem', made some valid points about national pride and the threat of Bolshevism"?
Posted by MASK 02/27/2008 @ 10:44pm
Hitler did far more than espouse racist views on the Jews! So, unless you know for a fact MC ranks up there w/Hitler, I'll assume that, like METT, they are both strongly anti-Jews. Most folks don't fault leaders espousing nationalism.....good way to unite a people! It's one thing Hitler, Buchanan, JFK, Reagan, etc... all had in common! Bolshevism? Hitler proved to be right and we ended up fighting it for 5 decades!
Warning, Warning.....don't twist my words out to be pro-Hitler or pro-Nazis! Like every party or `movement', as the one Magically underway right here in the US, there are aspects that are broadly attractive, ie, Utopian!
Posted by Happy at 02/28/2008 @ 12:16am
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 02/27/2008 @ 11:36pm | ignore this person
and i was being polite and nice, too. i called her "dear"...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/28/2008 @ 12:25am
Posted by HAPPY 02/28/2008 @ 12:16am | ignore this person
way too HAPPY to be a nazi, HAPPY! lol...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/28/2008 @ 12:26am
I love how they say Obama is getting the free ride in the press. Maybe, just maybe, it's because he has dealt with the tough questions in a collected and knowledgeable way.
Posted by daniel.f at 02/28/2008 @ 01:36am
like METT, they are both strongly anti-Jews.
Posted by HAPPY 02/28/2008 @ 12:16am
i think he's actually anti-israeli apartheid.
me, too.
the government of israel is nasty. i am not anti-semite.
the government of iran is nasty. i am not anti-muslim.
etc.,
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/28/2008 @ 01:43am
The reality is than Obama is not a "black' but is best described as a multi-ethnic. His American heritage, from his mother is white, as his father, Barack Obama snr, has never been an American citizen. Jnr was born in Honolulu and his father left the marriage when Barack jnr was two.
His stepfather was an Indonesian. He lived in Jakarta from age six to ten with his mother and stepfather then when his mother divorced again he was sent to live with his maternal grandparents, presumably white for he claims they raised him as a white person in Hawaii until he was eighteen. Hardly a typical African American identity or upbringing.
It is obvious that his intellectual ability comes from his parents, particularly his father who was a post grad student at Harvard.
Obama belongs to the class of educated Western elites and shares little in common with most African Americans.
His unique background as a multi-ethnic person would perhaps get him more votes across the American ethnic spectrum, if it were emphasised, rather than him assuming a black American identity.
Posted by harvey 79 at 02/28/2008 @ 02:02am
Posted by HARVEY 79 02/28/2008 @ 02:02am
a brazilian in the white house.......
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/28/2008 @ 02:04am
I am not going to denounce Farrakhan. I will denounce any of his angry rants in which he dehumanized any groups or people. Farrakhan is not "FINISHED" as black leader. Black leadership is a troubled institution that has mostly been co-opted by the politics of today. Few black leaders are willing to take risk and say what needs to be said, but in doing so one might occasionally say something offensive or stupid. The Million Man March has been buried in American history, but that event in October 1995 will always be of great significance in Black history. It certainly made white America nervous, but will always be a source of pride for Black America.
Farrakhan is not the issue really.
The issue is Jewish Power and White Fear vs Black Nationalism. That's what the Obama Church and Obama pastor debate is about. White Americans fear a black person will get power and use it to get revenge against whites. Jewish Americans feel they must hunt down every anti Semite to insure support for Israel and prevent another holocaust. These fears were hoisted on poor Barak Obama. If he were white nobody would care, they would think his membership in a Pro Black church gave him multi cultural bonafides. Barak is only half white, and in America that makes you black. Jewish America needs to calm down. They are the most successful people in this country if not the world. There is nothing Jewish people need to fear beyond the jealousy of others. An envious position indeed. Beyond that they seek to defend Israel, which causes most of the supposed anti-semitism out there. The extreme sensitivity of the Jewish Community combined with its substantial influence creates many incidences of distorted importance. Jews are not being denied opportunity if anything they have more than any other people. I personally really wish they stopped complaining so much. White America needs to stop being paranoid. Black people are not out to get revenge. White America has not come to terms with how is it possible Black people can just let the whole slavery/segregation thing go. Well we can because thinking about it really distracts us from living a normal life. In order to be angry about slavery and racism you have to constantly seek out reminders, that's where people like Farrakhan come in. Farrakhan reminds black people of the racist past, and the inequities in America. A small dose of that gives you a little reminder of what we have been through as a people. We pretty much nod our heads and go about what we were doing like it never happened. We don't hate white people, we just feel its safer to not get to comfortable. Blacks are used to being in a struggle its built into the culture. Perhaps like Jews blacks are predisposed to fighting from an underdog position, and being in a continuous state of conflict. But unlike Jews we don't have the wealth or power to control our destiny.
Posted by edtastic at 02/28/2008 @ 03:10am
Mask I would say let up on Happ he is not defending MC's racist views he is defending the statement he made. Sorry but you are going way overboard attacking him and saying he is racist while all he did was agree with one statement the person said. If a neo-nazi says the sky is blue I will agree with him even though I'm black, I am not going to then try to convince him it's purple.
On your comment Happy about being able to agree with someone only 40% or 60%. Can't he have agreed with some of his mentors beliefs and not others? For instance couldn't Obama learn a stance of strength and pride without having to also succumb to the racism? Couldn't he have positive views of his mentor but not think positively of his relationship with Farrakhan. You have cemented this argument here. Just because you agree with what some of Mark says and agree that he is well educated in history and some of the liberal arts doesn't mean you also support his racism.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 02/28/2008 @ 03:45am
Also I beg the question to everyone. Why is it such a negative thing if Obama is Muslim? Do we have a national religion? Are only Protestants allowed to be in office? The Muslim religion is not a negative thing. Yes fundamentalists take it too far, just like Christian fundamentalists take it too far. I don't understand why it's such a bad thing if he is Muslim? However I guess I look just as negatively upon those who look down at Muslims as much as those who look down on Jews.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 02/28/2008 @ 03:48am
Posted by EDTASTIC 02/28/2008 @ 03:10am
Finally someone else who can agree with me that in America if you are half-black you are all black when it comes to the way people perceive you.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 02/28/2008 @ 03:52am
Nicr also I have to add that I highly respect the opinion the layed out earlier. People think that because someone has a big mouth that they are the leaders of an entire group. Does that mean I should assume that every single racist white person is the leader of the entire white race in America? Most blacks do not like Farrahkan. He has some good ideas occasionally. Young black men in this country definitely do need to be set on the right path. I have been looked down on for a long time because I go against what popular culture says I should be. I am a young, educated and successful black man and for some reason it has been ingrained into black culture that we should not be successful or well educated. So we do need some change that he has pointed out but that does NOT make him a leader. A small amount of people like him in the black community, just like a small amount of people like KKK leaders in the white community.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 02/28/2008 @ 03:57am
I had more the impression that he was helping Obama out, giving him the opportunity to defuse the issue once and for all, which he did. On the other hand, Russert set a trap for Clinton and didn't let her wriggle out of it when he asked her TWICE who the next president of Russia is. Cornered, she fumbled the pronunciation and finished off with an arrogantly dismissive "Whatever!" It was an ugly moment and I cringed, as did, I am sure, any European or Russian who saw it. She claims ad nauseum that she will be ready on day one, but she hadn't done her homework. Thank goodness she will be irrelevant after Tuesday.
Posted by redmanrt at 02/28/2008 @ 05:21am
I dont think the media is being soft on Obama I think Obama is a very skilled orator and strategist. He is very elusive as Hillary has learned at the debate. He knows when to hold his ground when to concede to the other person and how to subtly dig the knife in. Hillary complained about going first but going first should have allowed her to set the tone for the debate which she did but then when the second question came about Nafta that is when she is complaining about going first. It would have had more validity if she complained about going first when the first question came up. In some ways Obama is like a sponge and you need to be careful when he goes last particularly if you are going on and on. This is why I think going on and on hurts Hillary. It gives him time to pick out the points that he wants to use to subtley stick that knife in and that is what people remember not what Hillary is going on and on about. While going first may be advantegous with someone like Obama it becomes a liability when you go on and on because he is there soaking it up and jotting down his points that he is going to nail you on. This is why I think he will be a good negotiator its because he is a good listener. So when he is sitting there jotting stuff down while Hillary goes on he is listening very intently and he is not being rude or disrespectful he is just sharpening the knives that he is going to use to nail her on. She should keep her responses short and emphasize main points that way she stops him from processing what she is saying. You can tell that Obama's brain is always working.
Carol
Posted by harriscrl3 at 02/28/2008 @ 07:59am
Jewish peopel must take a VERY close look at Obama's friends before we consider voting for this guy, as so many jews seem ready to do. Farrakhan is far from the only anti-Semite in the black community. His pastor, whom he still looks for for spiritual guidance, is rabidly anti-israel, and has suggested boycotts and other measures, not to mention referring to Israel as an "apartied state". To 95% of jews in this country, these are completely unacceptable positions.
Edtastic, thank you for your soothing words, but jewish people never got anywhere with complacency. It may very well be that Farrakhan isn't in actuality much of a threat and same with his church, but sometimes its the thought that counts.
Posted by Stubine at 02/28/2008 @ 09:07am
Posted by CCCOMFO1 02/28/2008 @ 03:48am
obama/ellison '08!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/28/2008 @ 09:14am
People think that because someone has a big mouth that they are the leaders of an entire group.
Posted by CCCOMFO1 02/28/2008 @ 03:57am
you mean like america?
;-)
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/28/2008 @ 09:17am
You can tell that Obama's brain is always working.
Posted by HARRISCRL3 02/28/2008 @ 07:59am
doesn't sound like presidential material to me.......
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/28/2008 @ 09:19am
Posted by CCCOMFO1 02/28/2008 @ 03:45am
CCC, HAPP did more than just than defend MC for his attack on Obama....he said quote
"MC makes many valid points and seems well read on history"....Posted by HAPPY 02/27/2008 @ 10:32pm
Now, go back and read that C&P of MC's from months back. The guy is calling THE HOLOCAUST a "bright moment in HISTORY".
That's hardly "the sky is blue"...that's like you saying "black people are dumb" and then HAPP saying "CCC is pretty well read and knows his racial biology".
Sorry, ain't backing down. If MARKCANYON was an avowed STALINIST Communist and thought the Soviet response to the Holodomor was "a bright moment in history"...
would HAPP tolerate ANYBODY on the Left saying that "other than his totalitarian Communism and 'problem' with Ukrainians, MC has some pretty good ideas"?
Posted by Mask at 02/28/2008 @ 10:04am
Mask, is it any surprise that others on the left now openly support blatant anti-semetism?
Where have you idiots been the past five years, reading The Nation?? The fact that this sort of thing can crop up in this publication, almost exclusively jewish, shows exactly how far these people and their attitude has infiltrated and infected the left.
Posted by Stubine at 02/28/2008 @ 10:12am
Posted by STUBINE 02/28/2008 @ 10:12am
same old nonsense.
opposition to israeli apartheid is not anti-semitism.
george bush is an idiot.
does that make me anti-christian?
nonsense.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/28/2008 @ 11:29am
Come on frosty, no one is talking merely about "opposition to israel" .
I opposed israel too, when they pulled out of gaza!
Posted by Stubine at 02/28/2008 @ 11:41am
As some would have you to belive, it is untrue that blacks are voting for Obama because he is black, (like some women are voting for Hillary because she is a woman) hence they did not vote for Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. They are voting for Obama, like most Americans, because he represents and inspires Hope and a Change of "nothing" getting done to "legislation" finally getting passed. It's Transformational and our Renaissance Moment!
Barack Obama had a Tripple Whammy thrown at him with the throwing out of his middle name in a negative way, accompanied by a picture of Obama dressed in Somali garb, at the same time being endorsed by Farrakhan this is the worst kind of politics, its called "Swift Boating", which in reality is an assisination of character insinuating that Barack is a Muslin, even though he's not. It's a Political Katrina Moment! I hope Americans of Good Will will not allow Camp Clinton and the Republicans to Swift-boat Barack like the Republicans did Kerry, turning a war hero into a deserter. And too, Obama can be of use to America by addressing the need of some to "clerverly" sow divisions and to exploit our differences, instead of building on that which unites us. "The world can use him too, with his reach to the Muslim nations and his middle name making it impossible for the US to walk away from one of the biggest foreign policy blunders in history. A restructuring of this overall policy is due after the demolition of the World Trade Towers. Some people think it's cool to be cynical. They deride those who show overt respect, admiration, and optimism. Those who still believe they can make a difference. Those who know they have power. This campaign has proven that cruelty is no longer desired as political style in the United States. The people now have a choice. A choice between magnifying the negatives or using the positives. I will say this. Obama has the potential to be one of the greats, but only if the people participate in molding his leadership. That's the task at hand. He, himself, invites others to recognize his faults not letting them interfere with the work. You can see how the people's support has molded him already in his quick evolution from weak debating events to the beautiful, strong, elegant, debate he delivered last night.." From: Blogger, J.M., Raging Universe.
As a nation, we cannot afford to continue to alienate our allies and friends in the Middle East by insinuating that to have the name Hussein means that you are evil, a terrorist, or are to be feared. Do we really want to Convey that? We have to remember, it was not Sadam Hussein who bombed us on 911, though some would have you to think that. And, there are many good and decent people with the name Hussein all around the world and especially in the Middle East, some of which have been our allies such as King Jordan Hussein. To continue to ridicule and fear the name Hussein, will only continue to incite hatred and hostility, with the result of no end of wars in sight. America the world is watching and we must decide as a nation what we are going to do. Realize that Clinton is a Fighter while Obama is a Uniter! America is only as strong and good as her leaders and politicians. America is finding her Soul!
Posted by bacalove at 02/28/2008 @ 11:57am
Posted by MASK 02/27/2008 @ 3:31pm Not such an odd juxtaposition-- Farrakhan is hardly regarded as a leader or role model for the average black American.
And he has tempered his anti-Semitic rhetoric over the years. I remember at one point he played Mendelssohn on the violin to show his appreciation for Jewish culture. I guess he wanted prove that he'd changed his tune.
But it doesn't really matter what Farrakhan thinks about Jews because very few black people care one way or the other what he has to say. Ironically whenever I see or hear his name come up it's some older white person who's quoting or making some reference to him.
Posted by habiba at 02/28/2008 @ 12:14pm
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/action/ignore.mhtml?who=habiba
Felix Mendelsohn converted to Chritianity, and his music is not particularly jewish in nature. as a teenager he was instrumental, ha, in reviving the music of J.S. Bach, when he organized a performance of the St. Matthew Passion.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/28/2008 @ 12:22pm
Posted by HARVEY 79 02/28/2008 @ 02:02am
he's "black" cause this country is still racist...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/28/2008 @ 12:30pm
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 02/28/2008 @ 12:22pm
Well, another public relations mis-step by Louis Farrakhan. Interesting bit of music history. Strange that you've decided to ignore me based on this comment but I'm sure I'll get over it.
Posted by habiba at 02/28/2008 @ 12:32pm
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/action/ignore.mhtml?who=habiba
no, no and no. this heading does not mean I ignore you. what it means is I dragged the line down. why it shows up this way sometimes I do not know. sorry to create that impression. dragging is so much easier than copy and paste.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/28/2008 @ 12:36pm
Posted by STUBINE 02/28/2008 @ 10:12am
I think if you check, you'll see MARKCANYON...is no "leftist".
True, there is the "reflexively anti-Israel left" (Ari Berman of "TN" said so)...but then again there's the "reflexively Anything-Israel-Wants-To-Do-Is-Fine-By-Me right" as well.
LVLIB, our local fundamentaist preacher, has gone so far as to say he belives Israeli intelligence...more than OUR OWN!
Posted by Mask at 02/28/2008 @ 12:38pm
Posted by HABIBA 02/28/2008 @ 12:14pm
If Farrakhan were white and made RACIST comments, upto 4-5 years ago (instead of black and made anti-Semetic comments, upto 4-5 years ago)...
would he be cut the same slack by those who offer apologies for him now?
Posted by Mask at 02/28/2008 @ 12:40pm
I thought Obama's response was fine. But this article seems to fault Russert for asking the question. It is better to get this out in the open now and let it drain, rather than have some Rush Limbaugh bring it up come October.
Posted by longrush at 02/28/2008 @ 12:41pm
habiba, I am an autodidactic musicologist and historian, who made a wrong turn somewhere and ended up here.thanks for giving me the opportunity to exercise my expertise.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/28/2008 @ 12:42pm
Autodidacticism (also autodidactism) is self-education or self-directed learning. An autodidact, also known as an automath, is a mostly self-taught person. A person may become an autodidact at nearly any point in his or her life. While some may have been educated in a conventional manner in a particular field, they may choose to educate themselves in other, often unrelated areas.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/28/2008 @ 12:45pm
MSNBC 10 February 2008 : '...Obama's speech Tuesday night in Chicago: "We are the ones we've been waiting for, we are the change we seek."...'
David Brooks: 'If we are the change we have been waiting for then why have we been waiting since we've been here all along?'
Leon Wieseltier (describing John Updike): 'a man who has words for everything and nothing but words.'
Posted by HonestLiberal at 02/28/2008 @ 12:46pm
Mask,
You do realize you didn't ask me the same question as the first one right? As for the answer, I don't know. I don't follow Farrakhan one little bit. I know this article doesn't show he is getting any better though.
Posted by dentedpat at 02/28/2008 @ 12:50pm
Posted by MASK 02/28/2008 @ 12:40pm
I personally regard Farrakhan the same way I would view David Duke if he were to suddenly repudiate his past racist comments. I distrust Farrakhan in general. Like David Duke, the hateful rhetoric takes the spotlight, but is only one facet of a generally fraudulent character, involved in fraudulent activities. Farrakhan's decision to cease the Jew-baiting is probably based on self-interest, but I think Alexander's point is that he's being referenced as if he were still actively promoting anti-semitism.
@Emile DuBois-- okay, my confusion :)
Posted by habiba at 02/28/2008 @ 1:07pm
Posted by HAPPY 02/27/2008 @ 5:14pm
Gee, sounds like Senator Obama is pissing off all the right people!
I love the last dying gasps of the Neo-Con Howling Monkeys.
Must be frustrating to have 70% of the country repudiate you and your cherished "beliefs".
Suck it up, bug. There's PLENTY more where that comes from!
Posted by Dr Decibels at 02/28/2008 @ 1:12pm
Give him a break on Israel guys. There is no way he can win an election if he expresses empathy for Palestinians. The NYT is waiting for the hatchet job and I am sorry to say that your country's public discourse is hardwired against them. The best Obama can do is affirm Israel's right to exist and that Israel is an important ally, a statement that could have been said about Greece, Germany or any other ally, and then push for change once president. I will be judging him from the moment he is in the White House.
That said, someone has to start working on decoupling Jews from Israel. The majority of American Jews would be happy to see the settlements go, so someone has to mobilize them against AIPAC. Who? How? Any ideas.
On another note, an Obama supporter on CNN made a good comment, why does Obama have to apologize for Farakhan and McCain will most likely never be asked about Trent Lott, who will no doubt stand behind him. Why are black men forced to perform ritual apologies before white judges of higher morality when white men are never held up to the same standards? (rhetorical question, dont bother answering it).
Posted by dimik72 at 02/28/2008 @ 1:13pm
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 02/27/2008 @ 9:59pm
Malcom X became much larger in the black community "after" his death, and he never had the power (or interest) in mobilizing most blacks in America against Jews or Israel, especially later in life when he embraced true Islam and was exposed to "white Muslims".
Your statement about Parsons is absolutely ridiculous! He WAS one of four black CEOs in the Fortune 1,000. Now we are down to two - him and AMEX CEO Ken Chenalt. That is SHAMEFUL!
You also don't seem to understand the connection of having black professionals "living" in the black community and the positive impact such role models had when they lived there.
You shouldn't assume, as you have, that you are the only poster here that has any familiarity with living in the black community or with black history.
Posted by Metteyya at 02/28/2008 @ 1:20pm
Posted by STUBINE 02/28/2008 @ 09:07am
What is YOUR definition of an apartheid state?
Posted by Metteyya at 02/28/2008 @ 1:46pm
Most people define an "apartheid state" as one that enforces a "separate but unequal" doctrine where a significant portion of their population is segregated and oppressed.
Posted by Metteyya at 02/28/2008 @ 2:10pm
Posted by METTEYYA 02/28/2008 @ 1:20pm | ignore this person
look, you fail to provide any sources for your diatribe about the doctors and dentists and store owners. none.
Parsons is still chairman of the board. also how many were there in the 50s and 60s? why did he lose his CEO position? not because of the fact that he's black, but rather because he screwed up.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/28/2008 @ 3:17pm
Posted by DENTEDPAT 02/28/2008 @ 12:50pm
I think I phrased it badly, PAT. Was referring to Ms Alexander's take on Farrakhan.
If "marginal figure"...live it at that. Like David Duke, keep him marginal who cares? And if "repudiated and denounced" a candidate, leave it at that.
But why add "improving", unless it's to try and offer some apologia for Farrakhan and say "He's not THAT bad...look, here he's said..."? And maybe hint that an association with him is "not that bad" either?
Posted by Mask at 02/28/2008 @ 3:19pm
Posted by STUBINE 02/28/2008 @ 09:07am
You are wayyyyy too liberal with your definition of anti-semitism. I don't think we should be defending Israel. That doesn't NOT make me an anti-semite. There are many people who say we should stay out of the problems of Africa, does that make them racist? No. According to your definition of what it is to be prejudiced it does but it doesn't make them racist. I don't have to dislike Jews in order to think that we should stop protecting Israel. We seem to be fine with letting the situations in South America, Africa and parts of Asia go so why is it such a sin to let Israel go. Israel is more than capable of defending itself without out help. As they proved when they bombed the shit out of Lebanon.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 02/28/2008 @ 3:22pm
one more bit about Farakhan, he's dying.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/28/2008 @ 3:24pm
Posted by MARKCANYON 02/28/2008 @ 3:16pm
Why don't you ask black people like Nicr who their leaders are Mark. 20,000 people in a community of millions isn't exactly a lot. I'll bet you there are 20 times that who think he's a moron, just as easily. He is not a leader in our community Mark. Maybe a known racist shouldn't be trying to tell US who our leaders are.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 02/28/2008 @ 3:25pm
why does anyone not have markcanyon on ignore? is there some value to be had from talking to an anti-semite? Lets just all put him on ignore and hope he takes a turn down the wrong street in LA wearing a swastika.
Posted by dentedpat at 02/28/2008 @ 3:29pm
but I think Alexander's point is that he's being referenced as if he were still actively promoting anti-semitism.----Posted by HABIBA 02/28/2008 @ 1:07pm
Sorry, HABIBA, but until Farrakhan does his "George Wallace" moment, where he goes to some synagogue and does a full mea culpa for his past....it's just CYA and "nice-nice" face for the Media and an attempt to make himself a "legitimate" black leader.
In which case, it's bulls**t. And the first part, he's "marginal" is good enough. No need to start proclaiming how he's 'starting to change'!
Posted by Mask at 02/28/2008 @ 3:33pm
you make a persuasive point
Posted by emile duBois at 02/28/2008 @ 3:54pm
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/action/ignore.mhtml?who=MarkCanyon
basta.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/28/2008 @ 4:05pm
Posted by MARKCANYON 02/28/2008 @ 3:57pm
Again MLK had a majority of followers in the black community. Farrahkan does not appeal to the majority of the black community. So he is not the leader of the black community.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 02/28/2008 @ 4:14pm
Posted by MARKCANYON 02/28/2008 @ 4:40pm
Sorry I said the wrong word, I meant A not The.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 02/28/2008 @ 5:04pm
Posted by CCCOMFO1 02/28/2008 @ 5:04pm
CCC....seriously, MARKCANYON is a neo-Nazi (not exaggerating...really!).
Posted by Mask at 02/28/2008 @ 7:53pm
As a student of black movements, I've noticed that of all the organizations, the Nation of Islam is the least studied. What passes as scholarship is rehashed non-studies repeated since 1959 when the program, The Hate That Hate Produced, aired. I've watched as many lectures as possible, read as many articles as they have printed on the organization. And, aside from E.D. Beynon's mid-'30s piece, Secret Ritual of the Nation of Islam, none of them have done in depth research. (Yes, C. Eric Lincoln is included in the non-research group, also only citing Beynon).
That being said, in the mid to late 80s when, contrary to Ms. Alexander's premise, Farrakhan was drawing hundreds of thousands across America, the media, (from the Washington Post to the LA Times) confused by his appeal, in editorials, sought to find a way to decrease his influence, and, almost as if there were a conference call, the agreed upon counter - stop covering him. Thus from 1986 to 1994 newspaper coverage, magazine articles, et al, are minimal. The Million Man March ended that, enter Ms. Alexander's book.
It is easy to sum up a person, an organization, and those that follow or are sympathetic in a phrase - anti-semitic, hate mongering. Then, the greater issues are ignored. Instead of glazing over what Farrakhan had to say about Obama with past propaganda, why not do what journalist are supposed to do-cover the event, free of bias, free of judgement? If that's not done then the mistakes of the past fifty years (in covering the organization) will continue, and years from now it will be nearly impossible to have a frank, clear, and true idea of what exactly happened,
Thirteen years have passed and we still don't know why a million men came to Washington D.C. to hear this man who Ms. Alexander dismisses as never being a leader.
Posted by R.Esearch at 02/29/2008 @ 01:12am
Mark you are actually right on the money about MLK. He was facing a variety of personal scandals, and his Vietnam protests weren't resonating in the black community that increasingly preferred the racist rhetoric coming out of Farrakan's ilk...
MLK was a great leader, it is true. But most blacks, like most whites, never really appreciated him.
Posted by Stubine at 02/29/2008 @ 02:56am
Thirteen years have passed and we still don't know why a million men came to Washington D.C. to hear this man who Ms. Alexander dismisses as never being a leader.
Posted by R.ESEARCH 02/29/2008 @ 01:12am | ignore this person
a million men in Washington? didn't happen.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/29/2008 @ 07:24am
which is not to say that it was not an impressive event. Farakhan was not the only organizer.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/29/2008 @ 10:18am